My first Keris.....but is it a good one??

Henk · 16th August 2008, 09:45 AM

David,

David is right. This gonjo fits perfectly on the blade. It isn't grinded. In this slight spacing dust and dirt fill up the space. If I would call all my keris with such a gonjo and all keris I see on other places gonjo iras, a seperated gonjo would be a curiousity and not the gonjo iras.

katana · 16th August 2008, 10:54 AM

Hi David and Henk,
thank you for clarifying that the blade has a seperate ganja. Does this mean that the blade is older ? Or is this feature due to the skill or origin of the blade maker ?
My understanding is the the ganja acts like a cross guard, so would a seperate ganja allow an easier repair if this part is damaged. ?

The pamor of the blade ....is it a layer forge welded to a blade 'core' The reason I ask is the patterning is not even similar when you view the blade both sides (ie an area directly opposite to each other) Or is the folding during forging done many times but not enough to cause the steel to be 'homogenised'?
I also understand that meteoric ores could be added....but how would you know?

Gentlemen sorry for all the questions.....but I am learning

, thank you

Regards David

Rick · 16th August 2008, 04:48 PM

There are a few theories about the function of the Ganja . An esoteric one is that the Ganja is like a stopper on the base of the blade to hold the spirit in the blade .

Mechanically it may have been easier to add a Ganja to widen the blade than to try to forge it all in one piece .

I'd like to see a full shot of the blade profile (dapur) .

The pamor is laminated to both sides of a steel core ; a sandwich of sorts .
Then there are blades made entirely from pamor material with no core .

And
For more learnin'

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/
scroll down to Asia

David · 16th August 2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Does this mean that the blade is older ? Or is this feature due to the skill or origin of the blade maker ?

Not necessarily. A separate gonjo on an Indo keris is not really an indicator of age as it is with Moro kris where a separate gonjo generally indicates a pre-1930 dating.
I do believe that your keris is an older. I haven't read nearly as much about age indicators for Bali keris as Jawa, but it seems to me that this type of Bali keris is older than the late 19th century style that we generally attribute to that more bold Bali look. The diminutive ricikan and the slow, gentle waver of the luk definitely read to me as an older style. I don't know how much older. Perhaps someone has more information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

I also understand that meteoric ores could be added....but how would you know?

Here's a link to 21 pages of threads were meteoric pamor has been discussed on these forums.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/search...earchid=205157
The short answer is that you can never be sure unless you commissioned the piece and watched it be made, but the likelihood is low. Meteoric ore was a rare commodity that was controlled and used sparingly.
Of the 21 pages this particular thread might be helpful to you on this subject.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...eteorite+keris

katana · 16th August 2008, 09:19 PM

Thank you Rick

I will add a few pics of the blade profile later, and read the link you posted.

Hi David,
an older blade

that would be great. I never, before, realised the complexities of Keris .....no wonder you guys have a separate forum

I will certainly read through the posts about the use of meteoric ore ....I know I will find it fasinating. Having held a few meteors and knowing that these travelled the great void of space for millions of years is a 'strange experience'.... no wonder their importance if forged into blade

Thank you all for making me feel so welcome, I appreciate it.

Kind Regards David

16th August 2008, 04:48 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,378	There are a few theories about the function of the Ganja . An esoteric one is that the Ganja is like a stopper on the base of the blade to hold the spirit in the blade . Mechanically it may have been easier to add a Ganja to widen the blade than to try to forge it all in one piece . I'd like to see a full shot of the blade profile (dapur) . The pamor is laminated to both sides of a steel core ; a sandwich of sorts . Then there are blades made entirely from pamor material with no core . And For more learnin' http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/ scroll down to Asia Last edited by Rick; 16th August 2008 at 05:41 PM.

16th August 2008, 09:45 AM	#1
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	David, David is right. This gonjo fits perfectly on the blade. It isn't grinded. In this slight spacing dust and dirt fill up the space. If I would call all my keris with such a gonjo and all keris I see on other places gonjo iras, a seperated gonjo would be a curiousity and not the gonjo iras.

16th August 2008, 10:54 AM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi David and Henk, thank you for clarifying that the blade has a seperate ganja. Does this mean that the blade is older ? Or is this feature due to the skill or origin of the blade maker ? My understanding is the the ganja acts like a cross guard, so would a seperate ganja allow an easier repair if this part is damaged. ? The pamor of the blade ....is it a layer forge welded to a blade 'core' The reason I ask is the patterning is not even similar when you view the blade both sides (ie an area directly opposite to each other) Or is the folding during forging done many times but not enough to cause the steel to be 'homogenised'? I also understand that meteoric ores could be added....but how would you know? Gentlemen sorry for all the questions.....but I am learning , thank you Regards David

16th August 2008, 09:19 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thank you Rick I will add a few pics of the blade profile later, and read the link you posted. Hi David, an older blade that would be great. I never, before, realised the complexities of Keris .....no wonder you guys have a separate forum I will certainly read through the posts about the use of meteoric ore ....I know I will find it fasinating. Having held a few meteors and knowing that these travelled the great void of space for millions of years is a 'strange experience'.... no wonder their importance if forged into blade Thank you all for making me feel so welcome, I appreciate it. Kind Regards David