It's the same old story

Marcokeris · 9th August 2008, 02:13 AM

I stained blades with warangan many, many times. I tried also with others substances but the result was always bad

. By warangam with new blades the result has been always good

........with old blades

sometimes good.... sometimes accettable...sometimes no good

If a person finds an easy way to stain the blades he must win chemic's Nobel

Tomorrow I must stain an old blade ....first time (a week ago) the result was no accettable. Now I have done a new liquid (brasilian limes and warangan) i hope to have a different exit (IMO the more difficult passage is the final : when I must clean the blade with water)

sjors · 9th August 2008, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Yep, i am afraid that the "same old story" gets the "same old answer".

David, I was allready afraid of that

Let there be no misunderstandig: I prefer the "old" way and I'm fully aware of the fact that everything is allready tried but I am just wondering what happens chemically if one applies warangan and lemonjuice on iron...
I'm not a chemist (I wish I was) but this would be an interessting field of research: I know that, chemically seen, there should be way(s) to get the same results... but still there aren't!

So far nobody had similar results but in the past someone did discover the effect of lime and warangan on iron and nickel.
I wonder why, till now, inspite of all our knowledge, no one was able to reproduce that "discovery" (after all, it's just chemical science

)

Henk; if I know an alternative way, you're the first I will tell

Mr. Maisey: Are you able to tell we what the difference is in using rice water instead of tapwater? Does it prevent rust or is there another reason: what is the effect of the rice? Thank you, Sjors

Marcokeris: chemic's Nobel, that would be nice but I allready know it won't be me

A. G. Maisey · 9th August 2008, 07:43 AM

Sorry, I have no idea what the difference would be between rice water and any other water. I used rice water because I was following a method described in a 19th century book---it called for rice water, I used rice water, the method worked.

sjors · 9th August 2008, 07:51 AM

Dear Mr. Maisey,

Would it be possible to publice the sulfur, salt ricewaterreceipe here?
That would be very nice

Thank you, Sjors

A. G. Maisey · 9th August 2008, 01:37 PM

There is no recipe, per se.

I read a description in a 19th century book written by an Englishman who observed the process. I forget what quantities I used, but I would still have the book, although I cannot remember which one it is.If I can find it, I'll post what is written.

sjors · 9th August 2008, 02:47 PM

Thank you very much!

Henk · 9th August 2008, 02:57 PM

Rick,

I'm aware of some people who stains pamorblades traditionally here in Holland. Especially one person who wants to stay anonymous did the staining for me on some keris who needed it badly.
As Alan and Marcokeris said the results vary, especially on older blades. I was told that the result depended on the kind of materials that was used for the blade. Older blades where made with knickle contenting iron with very low nickle. Those blades have a more grey pamor appearance. Some blades need a week staining before the pamor becomes visible, other blades needed half an hour to get a result.

Sjors,

Just like Alan I stained a worthless keris blade once with sulphur to find out the result. The result was acceptable indeed, but that smell.....

You won't get permission from the mrs. to bring a keris stained with sulphur in the house. And if you get permission it will save you some money. Your friends won't come to drink a beer with you

.

sjors · 9th August 2008, 04:18 PM

Okay Henk it's obvious, it's always the same: you have to choose between your relatives and your hobbies, anyway you loose

Marcokeris · 11th August 2008, 09:12 PM

[QUOTE=Marcokeris]I stained blades with warangan many, many times........

Yesterday i tried to stain my old blade with new solution (Warangan and limes) well..... the result was a real fully unsucesfull

To day i have used my very old solution (with a little new solution inside) and the result has been good (better than the original old pamor)

Conclusion:

Henk · 12th August 2008, 09:28 PM

Rick,

The chemistry teacher made the sulphur acid solution for me. She used concentrated sulphur acid and distilled water. I did it in the chemistry room next to the classroom at school. Some students came to take a look at the process from time to to time with the permission of the teacher. It became an educational project as well. The solution was as strong as the sulphur acid in a car battery. It was 20 or 25%.

And yes, even after washing and oiling that lovely stink of the sulphur came into your nose. I just left the blade (it was a worthless one after all) a few weeks in the garage. Now it is in a box on the attic in the garage. Didn't look at it for ages.

Rick · 12th August 2008, 11:49 PM

Thanks Henk ,
I think I'll stay away from sulphur .

A. G. Maisey · 13th August 2008, 12:32 AM

Henk, that was an etch with sulphuric acid, not a stain with sulphur.

You can get some sort of a result with just about any acid, nitric is probably the best result from an acid, but its horrible stuff to use, and I would not recommend it.

The sulphur stain job that I did years and years ago was powder sulphur mixed to a paste. The description in the book called for it to be wrapped in a banana leaf, but I wrapped it in plastic.The process took about a week.

I've had a look for that book, but its not in my book cases, which means it is in a cardboard box in my garage. I forget the name, but it was by an Englishman, it was an Oxford University Press reprint, and it has red dust covers.I'll locate it one day.

Rick · 21st August 2008, 08:49 PM

Well, I had at the Ganja Iras with the Ferric .
It took a couple of tries and the effect may be the reverse of what it might be if traditionally stained ...

I just wanted to see the pamor .

Marcokeris · 21st August 2008, 09:35 PM

Rick
It seems a bendo segodo/uler lulut pamor.....but....it's like a negative picture!!

21st August 2008, 08:49 PM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Well, I had at the Ganja Iras with the Ferric . It took a couple of tries and the effect may be the reverse of what it might be if traditionally stained ... I just wanted to see the pamor . Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 21st August 2008 at 09:35 PM.

9th August 2008, 02:13 AM	#1
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	I stained blades with warangan many, many times. I tried also with others substances but the result was always bad . By warangam with new blades the result has been always good ........with old blades sometimes good.... sometimes accettable...sometimes no good If a person finds an easy way to stain the blades he must win chemic's Nobel Tomorrow I must stain an old blade ....first time (a week ago) the result was no accettable. Now I have done a new liquid (brasilian limes and warangan) i hope to have a different exit (IMO the more difficult passage is the final : when I must clean the blade with water)

9th August 2008, 07:43 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Sorry, I have no idea what the difference would be between rice water and any other water. I used rice water because I was following a method described in a 19th century book---it called for rice water, I used rice water, the method worked.

9th August 2008, 07:51 AM	#4
sjors Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 68	Dear Mr. Maisey, Would it be possible to publice the sulfur, salt ricewaterreceipe here? That would be very nice Thank you, Sjors

9th August 2008, 01:37 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	There is no recipe, per se. I read a description in a 19th century book written by an Englishman who observed the process. I forget what quantities I used, but I would still have the book, although I cannot remember which one it is.If I can find it, I'll post what is written.

9th August 2008, 02:47 PM	#6
sjors Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 68	Thank you very much!

9th August 2008, 02:57 PM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Rick, I'm aware of some people who stains pamorblades traditionally here in Holland. Especially one person who wants to stay anonymous did the staining for me on some keris who needed it badly. As Alan and Marcokeris said the results vary, especially on older blades. I was told that the result depended on the kind of materials that was used for the blade. Older blades where made with knickle contenting iron with very low nickle. Those blades have a more grey pamor appearance. Some blades need a week staining before the pamor becomes visible, other blades needed half an hour to get a result. Sjors, Just like Alan I stained a worthless keris blade once with sulphur to find out the result. The result was acceptable indeed, but that smell..... You won't get permission from the mrs. to bring a keris stained with sulphur in the house. And if you get permission it will save you some money. Your friends won't come to drink a beer with you .

9th August 2008, 04:18 PM	#8
sjors Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 68	Okay Henk it's obvious, it's always the same: you have to choose between your relatives and your hobbies, anyway you loose

11th August 2008, 09:12 PM	#9
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	[QUOTE=Marcokeris]I stained blades with warangan many, many times........ Yesterday i tried to stain my old blade with new solution (Warangan and limes) well..... the result was a real fully unsucesfull To day i have used my very old solution (with a little new solution inside) and the result has been good (better than the original old pamor) Conclusion:

12th August 2008, 09:28 PM	#10
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Rick, The chemistry teacher made the sulphur acid solution for me. She used concentrated sulphur acid and distilled water. I did it in the chemistry room next to the classroom at school. Some students came to take a look at the process from time to to time with the permission of the teacher. It became an educational project as well. The solution was as strong as the sulphur acid in a car battery. It was 20 or 25%. And yes, even after washing and oiling that lovely stink of the sulphur came into your nose. I just left the blade (it was a worthless one after all) a few weeks in the garage. Now it is in a box on the attic in the garage. Didn't look at it for ages.

12th August 2008, 11:49 PM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Thanks Henk , I think I'll stay away from sulphur .

13th August 2008, 12:32 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Henk, that was an etch with sulphuric acid, not a stain with sulphur. You can get some sort of a result with just about any acid, nitric is probably the best result from an acid, but its horrible stuff to use, and I would not recommend it. The sulphur stain job that I did years and years ago was powder sulphur mixed to a paste. The description in the book called for it to be wrapped in a banana leaf, but I wrapped it in plastic.The process took about a week. I've had a look for that book, but its not in my book cases, which means it is in a cardboard box in my garage. I forget the name, but it was by an Englishman, it was an Oxford University Press reprint, and it has red dust covers.I'll locate it one day.

21st August 2008, 09:35 PM	#14
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Rick It seems a bendo segodo/uler lulut pamor.....but....it's like a negative picture!!