Aceh Sikin for coments

[fernando]

Thank you all for your input, Gentlemen.
In view of what has been said (and unsaid) and also due to lack of sustainable evidence, i think i better give this dilemma the benefit of the doubt. Indeed the grip/bolster junction, in this example, is not the ideal match, but it seems as this is not a valid self speaker, for what matters. Although the thickness gap between the two parts is somehow outstanding, this appears not to be an uncommon irregularity, judging by other examples one can see out there.
Also i have yet not seen a sikim of this style (blade inlay) with grip (crown) ornaments.
Attached is the picture of one of similar kind, that i found at Oriental Arms arquives, in comparison with my example.

Fernando

[Battara]

What is the difference in status or significance between the gold inlay type and the "crown" type of ferrule?

[kai]

Hello Jose,

What is the difference in status or significance between the gold inlay type and the "crown" type of ferrule?

Ben asked the very same question a good while back but we never got enough evidence for a decent answer...

Obviously, the use of (low grade) gold will indicate a higher status than suassa (gold diluted even further). AFAIK, there are no indications that the use of gold (rather than suassa) was similarly frowned upon by Aceh people(s) as among the Moro. I'd guess that the spiky crown rather than the more rounded variant also shows higher status; the same may go for 3 crowns rather than 2. That's just a mere gut feeling though...

Regards,
Kai

[VVV]

Interesting thoughts on this variation of Sikin.
Here is mine, also acquired from Oriental Arms.
As you can see there is a bone ring as a spacer between the crown and the horn handle.

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1067

Michael

[asomotif]

Things are not getting much clearer for me

The example of Arti'z archive really gives me the idea that inlay and crowns have been combined on that piece.

As for the piece from Michael with the bone piece.
This is to me feels like a later restauration.

Ps. In the invincible Keris 2 there is mentioned that Suasa was higher appreciated than gold. Seems a bit unlikely to me. any ideas on that ?

[Battara]

Pure gold (or gold mixture 10k or more) were frowned upon by the Prophet as being weak (making men weak). Swassa is 9k and below, about a 1/3 and less gold content and thus not considered gold as such.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Battara

What is the difference in status or significance between the gold inlay type and the "crown" type of ferrule?

Originally Posted by Kai

Hello Jose,
Ben asked the very same question a good while back but we never got enough evidence for a decent answer...

Hi Kai,
If i recall, what Ben asked was the importance of the crowns in handles, not the difference in status between blades with gold inlay and the the crowns.
Crowns may be added at a later stage, while blade inlay is there from the beginning, right ?

Fernando

[asomotif]

Crowns may be added at a later stage, while blade inlay is there from the beginning, right ?

Dear Fernando,

I think that technically both can be done after a weapon is finished.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Dear Fernando,

I think that technically both can be done after a weapon is finished.

Hi Willem,
I don't mean technically, but chronologically. Like, if you already have a noble status you will buy a sword with blade inlay; but if you achieve some status at a later stage, you add a crown to your sword handle.
Just my fantasy
Fernando

[Dajak]

Don't look like an fantasy to me Fernando


Ben

[kai]

Hello Fernando,

If i recall, what Ben asked was the importance of the crowns in handles, not the difference in status between blades with gold inlay and the the crowns.

Yes, you're right. However, both touch on the issue of status (and the societies we're talking about were highly stratified) and we still don't have enough firsthand accounts to answer any of these questions with any certainty. When looking at the craftmanship of a larger amount of examples I believe the approximate status is fairly intuitive though - just have a look at the peudeueng from Ben's collection!
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1995

Crowns may be added at a later stage, while blade inlay is there from the beginning, right ?

Both could be added later. I would guess that most of these swords were pusaka and/or gifts from the sultan signifying a person's function (i. e. as a judge).

Regards,
Kai

[Dajak]

Hi Willem internet cafe everywhere here in Sanur Bali

An High rank officer is not only by birth

you can get there by good things you do like killing as much Dutch soldiers

Inlay is most from the start you can see the difference if it is put later on



Ben

[asomotif]

Hi Ben,

good things you do like killing as much Dutch soldiers

The Indonesian sun is getting to your head already

PS. also getting back on Battara's comment :

Pure gold (or gold mixture 10k or more) were frowned upon by the Prophet as being weak (making men weak). Swassa is 9k and below, about a 1/3 and less gold content and thus not considered gold as such.

Interesting theory.
But Sikin's with crowns are often very elaborate. With 2 or layers of crowns and enamel inlay.
While Sikin's with Suasa are often just showing a simple ring of suasa with some very simple lines. combined with a brass ferule. in crwon shape.

I am afraid even the noblest of the noble are attracted by gold.

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Battara

What is the difference in status or significance between the gold inlay type and the "crown" type of ferrule?

Just bringing this thread up again in light of some info I found in van Zonneveld (p.125) that answers part of my question. It is regarding the inlay that he says are auspicious signs (if I understand him right). Although this is in the context of sikim panjang, I think it can apply to other Aceh pieces.

I guess this leaves the crowns for court or status wear as discussed in another thread.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Battara

... It is regarding the inlay that he says are auspicious signs (if I understand him right). Although this is in the context of sikim panjang ...

I 'play' english 'by ear', but i see it in a different way, although it comes to the same . What he seems to say is that it is the flaming veins (Reuta) of the steel damascene (Kuree) that are an auspicious sign and that, some times such blades are (also) provided with gold wire incrustations ... such weapons being named Sikin Panjang Meutatah.
Fernando

[kai]

Hello Fernando,

Although the thickness gap between the two parts is somehow outstanding, this appears not to be an uncommon irregularity, judging by other examples one can see out there.
Also i have yet not seen a sikim of this style (blade inlay) with grip (crown) ornaments.
Attached is the picture of one of similar kind, that i found at Oriental Arms arquives, in comparison with my example.

Actually, I think that this piece from Artzi might be another example of an inlaid blade with (missing) golden crown: If one looks closely, there seems to be the "shadow" of a spiny crown visible where the hatching of the grip starts. It doesn't show the typical deep marks/impressions of the spikes (those Ben and me are referring to) though. However, even if this example doesn't help to prove the case, I believe it should be enough of an indication to keep an open mind on decorations of Aceh blades...

Regards,
Kai