Barbary corsairs/swords

RhysMichael · 23rd July 2008, 07:23 PM

From DEWEY AND OTHER NAVAL COMMANDERS.
BY EDWARD S. ELLIS, A.M., Copyright, 1899

CAPTAIN BAINBRIDGE AND THE DEY OF ALGIERS

RhysMichael · 23rd July 2008, 11:01 PM

Last one for a bit lest you all get tired of me posting pictures

Khair ad Din AKA One of the Barbarosa Brothers from a work reference to be from Helen Chapin Metz

TVV · 24th July 2008, 05:27 AM

Here are two nimchas, from a Bulgarian private collection (unfortunately not mine), who have always struck me as very suitable for a pirate weapon. One of them is actually similar to the Hopsonn sword. I believe they were collected in Bulgaria - there must have been serious movement of people and weapons in the Ottoman Empire back in the day.

M ELEY · 24th July 2008, 06:17 AM

Wow! Nice nimcha! That top one is particularly amazing with its thickened point! I'd love to get my hands on that one. Rick (RSword) has a truly amazing nimcha that I had the opportunity of holding, with gold leaf inlay. Its amazing how many of these swords are very simple/utilitarian, while others are made of the finest materials. Thanks for sharing.

RhysMichael, that's for posting your pics. The one of the Joassamee pirate with the faux shamshir-type sword got me to thinking. I was complaining about seeing these mock-Persian swords in so many speculative pirate pics and always assumed they were just imaginative. But now, after seeing so many pics with the clipped point swords, I'm truly wondering if this drawing might in fact be alluding to the Berber sabers, with their clipped points? As I mentioned and Jim concurred, most of these seem to be mid-19th century (too late for our time period). Does anyone know of any earlier Berber sabers? Or am I looking too hard at this? I guess the sketches could be a stylized version of a kilij?

TVV · 24th July 2008, 06:33 AM

I am not sure if the sketches are reliable - looking at the ship, it does not look like a xebec, the preferred type of vessel for the barbary coast pirates, which had triangular sails. I think the pictures are most the artist's imagination ratherthan an accurate depiction of real pirates and their weapons.

ward · 24th July 2008, 01:56 PM

You have to remember the reason a lot of these nimcha's are so late is because they were still in use. The slave trade was still legal in Morocco untill I beleive 1918 and in Mauritania untill 2002.

RhysMichael · 24th July 2008, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

I am not sure if the sketches are reliable - looking at the ship, it does not look like a xebec, the preferred type of vessel for the barbary coast pirates, which had triangular sails. I think the pictures are most the artist's imagination ratherthan an accurate depiction of real pirates and their weapons.

Etchings from that era are often not historically accurate so this is an excellent point.

fernando · 26th July 2008, 06:12 PM

Clandestine pictures taken at the Lisbon Military Museum.
The text in the tag mentions that this nimcha (?) was the sword prefered by Moroccan pirates of the XIX century. These are not the right words, but such was the sense.
Fernando

23rd July 2008, 07:23 PM	#1
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	From DEWEY AND OTHER NAVAL COMMANDERS. BY EDWARD S. ELLIS, A.M., Copyright, 1899 CAPTAIN BAINBRIDGE AND THE DEY OF ALGIERS Attached Images

23rd July 2008, 11:01 PM	#2
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Last one for a bit lest you all get tired of me posting pictures Khair ad Din AKA One of the Barbarosa Brothers from a work reference to be from Helen Chapin Metz Attached Images

26th July 2008, 06:12 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Clandestine pictures taken at the Lisbon Military Museum. The text in the tag mentions that this nimcha (?) was the sword prefered by Moroccan pirates of the XIX century. These are not the right words, but such was the sense. Fernando Attached Images

24th July 2008, 05:27 AM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,673	Here are two nimchas, from a Bulgarian private collection (unfortunately not mine), who have always struck me as very suitable for a pirate weapon. One of them is actually similar to the Hopsonn sword. I believe they were collected in Bulgaria - there must have been serious movement of people and weapons in the Ottoman Empire back in the day.

24th July 2008, 06:17 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Wow! Nice nimcha! That top one is particularly amazing with its thickened point! I'd love to get my hands on that one. Rick (RSword) has a truly amazing nimcha that I had the opportunity of holding, with gold leaf inlay. Its amazing how many of these swords are very simple/utilitarian, while others are made of the finest materials. Thanks for sharing. RhysMichael, that's for posting your pics. The one of the Joassamee pirate with the faux shamshir-type sword got me to thinking. I was complaining about seeing these mock-Persian swords in so many speculative pirate pics and always assumed they were just imaginative. But now, after seeing so many pics with the clipped point swords, I'm truly wondering if this drawing might in fact be alluding to the Berber sabers, with their clipped points? As I mentioned and Jim concurred, most of these seem to be mid-19th century (too late for our time period). Does anyone know of any earlier Berber sabers? Or am I looking too hard at this? I guess the sketches could be a stylized version of a kilij?

24th July 2008, 06:33 AM	#5
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,673	I am not sure if the sketches are reliable - looking at the ship, it does not look like a xebec, the preferred type of vessel for the barbary coast pirates, which had triangular sails. I think the pictures are most the artist's imagination ratherthan an accurate depiction of real pirates and their weapons.

24th July 2008, 01:56 PM	#6
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	You have to remember the reason a lot of these nimcha's are so late is because they were still in use. The slave trade was still legal in Morocco untill I beleive 1918 and in Mauritania untill 2002.