Dha ... Shan ? Northern Thailand ?

RhysMichael · 20th July 2008, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

The marks on the blade near the hilt ... remind me of 'file' made blades, is that possible ??

Regards David

I saw the marks you are talking about but with the shape of the spine and length of the sword I would not think so. I always thought files were used for short blades made by stock removal not longer forged blades but I could be wrong.

katana · 22nd July 2008, 03:17 PM

Arrived today ... and the blade seems to have some quality

The 'triangulated' tip has been there for a very long time ....I would not be surprised if it was forged this way. The blade looks to be laminated ...but could be an effect of the patina. There also seems to be some very faint decorative etching that has rubbed badly. Nicely balanced, the blade has been waxed, there are areas of 'micro pitting' / staining and the overall patination suggests to me that, indeed this could be 19thC. There are a few chips to the blade...but these appear to be old (magnifying glass) The rattan handle is 22cms long, the pommel capping is missing, but two small nail holes are visible in the end section, so I believe it was not altered. The blade is not central to the handle it is situated slightly to the right (as you look down at it) approx 3-4 mm out. This seems deliberate as the blade is 'square and straight' in relation to the handle.

A 'magnet. test shows that the tang is just over 3.5" long.

Regards David

Mark · 22nd July 2008, 03:44 PM

This tip is very interesting, and the first like it I have seen. In most cases where the tip is squared, angled, or rounded, the blade thickness at the spine tapers to the point where the "edge" of the tip is as sharp as the edge of the blade. In this case the spine is still quite meaty where the top angle of the tip begins, and the top edge does not appear sharpened. This leads me to the possibility that it was once upswept, broke off, and was re-cut along the back edge to its present shape.

katana · 22nd July 2008, 04:24 PM

Thanks Mark and Andrew

The 'spine' side of the tip is actually quite sharp ...with no evidence of any recent 'honing' , the patination is the same as the blade. I am not saying that this tip was not the result of a 'break' but, I think the design would allow cutting strikes on the 'back stroke' ...surely a surprise for an opponent as the 'normal' tip profiles would not allow this ?

Re-checking the spine I have discovered that the last 3" before the tip is also quite sharp, as sharp as the edge is presently (Although sharp the blade it is not 'razor' sharp , but as I said before there is no evidence of any recent sharpening and has been 'untouched' for a long time.) This attribute also suggests it could 'slash' on the back stroke.

The handle length is quite long in comparison to the blade length ...is this normal....Thank you

Kind Regards David

Andrew · 22nd July 2008, 04:32 PM

It's not really a question of "normal", David. Swords from this region quite often have long handles. A 2:1 blade:handle ratio is common, and I've seen some with 1:1 ratios.

Some even have handles longer than the blade, but these are really a subset of the form, primarily seen in Laos and the central highlands of Vietnam.

katana · 22nd July 2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

It's not really a question of "normal", David. Swords from this region quite often have long handles. A 2:1 blade:handle ratio is common, and I've seen some with 1:1 ratios.

Some even have handles longer than the blade, but these are really a subset of the form, primarily seen in Laos and the central highlands of Vietnam.

Thanks Andrew,
'normal', on reflection, was not a good choice of word. I am really getting to like Dha's (this is my second one) but, my knowledge on these is 'limited' so please 'bear' with me

This Dha is relatively 'light', but the handle suggested the possibility of two handed use, are these swords often used two handed or does the long handle allows placement of the grip to vary, enough to change the 'balance' characteristics and 'handling' of the Dha ...or a combination of the two?

Thanks David

Andrew · 22nd July 2008, 05:24 PM

No worries, David. Welcome to the "Dafia".

Two-handed use is certainly an option and I'm sure it was utilized from time to time. However, the longer handled forms are typically gripped closer to the guard (blade/handle junction when a guard isn't present) in one hand. As you note, this causes the center of balance to shift back towards the guard creating a light, quick "feeling" sword. The long handle thereby acts as a counterweight to the blade, much as large, heavy pommels on western medieval swords did.

For some more information on the handling characteristics of dha, check out the HOS article here: http://www.arscives.com/historysteel...ea.article.htm

Best,
Andrew

22nd July 2008, 03:17 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Arrived today ... and the blade seems to have some quality The 'triangulated' tip has been there for a very long time ....I would not be surprised if it was forged this way. The blade looks to be laminated ...but could be an effect of the patina. There also seems to be some very faint decorative etching that has rubbed badly. Nicely balanced, the blade has been waxed, there are areas of 'micro pitting' / staining and the overall patination suggests to me that, indeed this could be 19thC. There are a few chips to the blade...but these appear to be old (magnifying glass) The rattan handle is 22cms long, the pommel capping is missing, but two small nail holes are visible in the end section, so I believe it was not altered. The blade is not central to the handle it is situated slightly to the right (as you look down at it) approx 3-4 mm out. This seems deliberate as the blade is 'square and straight' in relation to the handle. A 'magnet. test shows that the tang is just over 3.5" long. Regards David Attached Images

22nd July 2008, 03:44 PM	#3
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	This tip is very interesting, and the first like it I have seen. In most cases where the tip is squared, angled, or rounded, the blade thickness at the spine tapers to the point where the "edge" of the tip is as sharp as the edge of the blade. In this case the spine is still quite meaty where the top angle of the tip begins, and the top edge does not appear sharpened. This leads me to the possibility that it was once upswept, broke off, and was re-cut along the back edge to its present shape.

22nd July 2008, 04:24 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thanks Mark and Andrew The 'spine' side of the tip is actually quite sharp ...with no evidence of any recent 'honing' , the patination is the same as the blade. I am not saying that this tip was not the result of a 'break' but, I think the design would allow cutting strikes on the 'back stroke' ...surely a surprise for an opponent as the 'normal' tip profiles would not allow this ? Re-checking the spine I have discovered that the last 3" before the tip is also quite sharp, as sharp as the edge is presently (Although sharp the blade it is not 'razor' sharp , but as I said before there is no evidence of any recent sharpening and has been 'untouched' for a long time.) This attribute also suggests it could 'slash' on the back stroke. The handle length is quite long in comparison to the blade length ...is this normal....Thank you Kind Regards David

22nd July 2008, 04:32 PM	#5
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	It's not really a question of "normal", David. Swords from this region quite often have long handles. A 2:1 blade:handle ratio is common, and I've seen some with 1:1 ratios. Some even have handles longer than the blade, but these are really a subset of the form, primarily seen in Laos and the central highlands of Vietnam.

22nd July 2008, 05:24 PM	#7
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	No worries, David. Welcome to the "Dafia". Two-handed use is certainly an option and I'm sure it was utilized from time to time. However, the longer handled forms are typically gripped closer to the guard (blade/handle junction when a guard isn't present) in one hand. As you note, this causes the center of balance to shift back towards the guard creating a light, quick "feeling" sword. The long handle thereby acts as a counterweight to the blade, much as large, heavy pommels on western medieval swords did. For some more information on the handling characteristics of dha, check out the HOS article here: http://www.arscives.com/historysteel...ea.article.htm Best, Andrew