Shamshir help needed Blade cartouche translation

ariel · 3rd July 2008, 05:41 PM

The blade, with its single, wide, upper-part located fuller looks European military to me.
Signatures of KalbAli are not as frequent as his alleged father's ( Assad Ullah) simply because there was less money in faking KalbAli's moniker. Adding a signature, cartouch or "beduh" onto a European or trade blade was a venerable practice all over the Middle East.
I kinda think it is not very old ( OK , older than John McCain or yours truly!), but not older than late 19th century.

P.Abrera · 3rd July 2008, 05:59 PM

Is the fact that the fuller runs under the guard rather than stops short of it with space for the cartouche on a flat section at the base of the blade unusual for this type of weapon?

Atlantia · 3rd July 2008, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.Abrera

Is the fact that the fuller runs under the guard rather than stops short of it with space for the cartouche on a flat section at the base of the blade unusual for this type of weapon?

Interesting point! I wonder if the blade has been remounted?

TVV · 3rd July 2008, 07:03 PM

I personally do not think the hilt is Turkish.

Atlantia · 3rd July 2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

I personally do not think the hilt is Turkish.

I'm certainly no expert TVV I'm only guessing. Do you have any strong leanings as to where it might hail from?

TVV · 3rd July 2008, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

I'm certainly no expert TVV I'm only guessing. Do you have any strong leanings as to where it might hail from?

I am not absolutely certain, but the pommel with the cap looks Persian to me. But as pointed out it could also be Indian or Central Asian. I just do not think it is Ottoman, because of the hilt shape.

ward · 3rd July 2008, 07:31 PM

TVV is right its not Turkish probably had grips replaced in working life maybe the guard was modified at that time. Pommel is older maybe from another sword

Ward

Atlantia · 3rd July 2008, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

The blade, with its single, wide, upper-part located fuller looks European military to me.
Signatures of KalbAli are not as frequent as his alleged father's ( Assad Ullah) simply because there was less money in faking KalbAli's moniker. Adding a signature, cartouch or "beduh" onto a European or trade blade was a venerable practice all over the Middle East.
I kinda think it is not very old ( OK , older than John McCain or yours truly!), but not older than late 19th century.

I think we are thinking along similar lines Ariel,
Its a fairly 'workmanlike' good fighting sword, nothing fancy, but good steel, strong and sure.
I thought it might be Turkish military, second half 19thC.
As for the sig, as I said to Ward, I know nothing .

3rd July 2008, 05:41 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The blade, with its single, wide, upper-part located fuller looks European military to me. Signatures of KalbAli are not as frequent as his alleged father's ( Assad Ullah) simply because there was less money in faking KalbAli's moniker. Adding a signature, cartouch or "beduh" onto a European or trade blade was a venerable practice all over the Middle East. I kinda think it is not very old ( OK , older than John McCain or yours truly!), but not older than late 19th century.

3rd July 2008, 05:59 PM	#2
P.Abrera Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20	Is the fact that the fuller runs under the guard rather than stops short of it with space for the cartouche on a flat section at the base of the blade unusual for this type of weapon?

3rd July 2008, 07:03 PM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,727	I personally do not think the hilt is Turkish.

3rd July 2008, 07:31 PM	#7
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	TVV is right its not Turkish probably had grips replaced in working life maybe the guard was modified at that time. Pommel is older maybe from another sword Ward