Moro Armor Arabic Inscription

baganing_balyan · 3rd July 2008, 10:19 AM

i wish someone can translate this. I know for sure that this is a turkish inscription since I saw the first line on a turkish helmet and on a blade.

Lew · 3rd July 2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baganing_balyan

i wish someone can translate this. I know for sure that this is a turkish inscription since I saw the first line on a turkish helmet and on a blade.

Why would this be specifically a Turkish inscription? It is more likely a general Koranic verse or blessing. Did the Turks use a specific identifiable form of script that can be differentiated from other Islamic groups?

Here is a helpful link.
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/turkish.htm

We will need the help of our friend Zifir to see if this is indeed Turkish script.

Lew

ward · 3rd July 2008, 04:20 PM

Arabic is the religoius language of Muslim nations period this looks like Arabic

Ward

Lew · 3rd July 2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ward

Arabic is the religoius language of Muslim nations period this looks like Arabic

Ward

Ward Arabic script had different forms over 500 yrs so there is a difference in the way it is written. Many older variations cannot be understood by modern day Moslems.

Lew

Lew · 3rd July 2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baganing_balyan

i wish someone can translate this. I know for sure that this is a turkish inscription since I saw the first line on a turkish helmet and on a blade.

baganing_balyan

I just showed the inscription to one of my Yemenite friends in the office and the writing is Arabic not (Perso-Arabic) Ottoman script. It is a verse or verses from the Koran. Nothing to do or identify with Turks at all he said. Koranic verses are found on many swords and armor in the Islamic world from India to the Sudan and from Asia to Eastern Europe it was a common practice. So unless an inscription is written in the Ottoman style there can be no positive link to Turkey or the Ottomans.

Lew

RhysMichael · 3rd July 2008, 09:13 PM

Would a verse from the koran like this be considered an agimat, anting-anting , oracion or none of the above ?
thanks in advance

Lew · 3rd July 2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhysMichael

Would a verse from the koran like this be considered an agimat, anting-anting , oracion or none of the above ?
thanks in advance

RhysMichael

I'm pretty sure this is a form of anting-anting to protect the wearer in battle.

Lew

ward · 3rd July 2008, 10:49 PM

Arabic is the same whether written 800 years ago or today. Their are 4 major script types and some minor ones. THuluth is the one the Turks used most. It is clear and legible unlike some otherts an educated person wrote the lines on that armor. Arabic is a non changing language. Since arabic was given to Mohammed by god and the words of god can not be changed. I can translate admitedly slowly a Koran verse written at 1200 A.D or now and anyone who knows the script changes can also translate it,espeecially Quoranic passages.Arabic is not english which has changed frequently over the years. It is difficult because of the many tenses and pronunciation varies from region to region. Ottoman and modern Turkish are dfferent the main thing is Ottoman was written in Arabic chareacters just like German and Spanish same alphabet but different languages. anting anting yes it is like protection for the wearer

A. G. Maisey · 4th July 2008, 12:02 AM

Ward, I have a very good friend who lives in Jawa, and who is an Imam.He is a highly educated man and is widely respected for his ability to read Arabic scripts. What you have said above, he has also said to me, however, with one addition:- where the script has been written by a person who does not have a high level of learning, or skill, it can result in forms that are incorrect. If the passage is from Al-Qur'an, this is not usually a problem, because once the passage has been identified, the illegible words will be known.
Often we find inscriptions on the reverse of keris scabbards and their metal covers. Sometimes these are in Javanese---which can also present problems with script---but perhaps as often the inscriptions are supposed to be Arabic, and nearly always the incorrectly formed script presents problems that result in a guessing game.

ward · 4th July 2008, 12:21 AM

I do not disagee with seeing bad spelling and some terrible handwiting is a problem. You must remember that artisians that are uneducated are very often copying the script off basically a template. I have often seen script written on the wall of a shop and copied letter by letter onto a piece. Just because you can speak arabic does not mean you can read or write. It still does not mean the language has changed. Allah in 800 A.D. is still Allah 2008 A.D.

Dom · 7th July 2008, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhysMichael

Would a verse from the koran like this be considered an agimat, anting-anting

yes, one verse it's reputated to have that power
- verse of the "Throne" number 254 from surate 2 el Baqarah (the cow)

as well as in use in "Islamic Magic Medicinal Bowl" (my other hobby ... collection of more than 30 ... pieces

)

à +

Dom

nacho · 7th July 2008, 04:54 AM

All very interesting and informative. The subject armor is now on display at the Yuchenco Museum in Makati (Philippines) in connection with their exhibit on SULU. It is one of the more popular items on display -- particularly because of the arabic inscriptions.

nacho · 8th July 2008, 03:26 AM

very informative. The armor being discussed is currently displayed at the Yuchenco Museum in the Philippines in connection with its SULU Exhibit.

salaghati · 12th July 2008, 09:35 AM

Baganing_balyan has an interesting post on her blog regarding this topic--Arabic On Moro Armor

3rd July 2008, 10:49 PM	#8
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Arabic is the same whether written 800 years ago or today. Their are 4 major script types and some minor ones. THuluth is the one the Turks used most. It is clear and legible unlike some otherts an educated person wrote the lines on that armor. Arabic is a non changing language. Since arabic was given to Mohammed by god and the words of god can not be changed. I can translate admitedly slowly a Koran verse written at 1200 A.D or now and anyone who knows the script changes can also translate it,espeecially Quoranic passages.Arabic is not english which has changed frequently over the years. It is difficult because of the many tenses and pronunciation varies from region to region. Ottoman and modern Turkish are dfferent the main thing is Ottoman was written in Arabic chareacters just like German and Spanish same alphabet but different languages. anting anting yes it is like protection for the wearer Last edited by ward; 3rd July 2008 at 11:44 PM.

7th July 2008, 04:54 AM	#12
nacho Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Makati Posts: 69	moro armor All very interesting and informative. The subject armor is now on display at the Yuchenco Museum in Makati (Philippines) in connection with their exhibit on SULU. It is one of the more popular items on display -- particularly because of the arabic inscriptions.

8th July 2008, 03:26 AM	#13
nacho Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Makati Posts: 69	moro armor very informative. The armor being discussed is currently displayed at the Yuchenco Museum in the Philippines in connection with its SULU Exhibit.

12th July 2008, 09:35 AM	#14
salaghati Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Orange County Posts: 3	Baganing_balyan has an interesting post on her blog regarding this topic--Arabic On Moro Armor Last edited by Mark; 18th July 2008 at 03:47 PM. Reason: No discussion of moderators' decisions.

3rd July 2008, 10:19 AM	#1
baganing_balyan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 89	i wish someone can translate this. I know for sure that this is a turkish inscription since I saw the first line on a turkish helmet and on a blade.

3rd July 2008, 04:20 PM	#3
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Arabic is the religoius language of Muslim nations period this looks like Arabic Ward

3rd July 2008, 09:13 PM	#6
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Would a verse from the koran like this be considered an agimat, anting-anting , oracion or none of the above ? thanks in advance

4th July 2008, 12:02 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Ward, I have a very good friend who lives in Jawa, and who is an Imam.He is a highly educated man and is widely respected for his ability to read Arabic scripts. What you have said above, he has also said to me, however, with one addition:- where the script has been written by a person who does not have a high level of learning, or skill, it can result in forms that are incorrect. If the passage is from Al-Qur'an, this is not usually a problem, because once the passage has been identified, the illegible words will be known. Often we find inscriptions on the reverse of keris scabbards and their metal covers. Sometimes these are in Javanese---which can also present problems with script---but perhaps as often the inscriptions are supposed to be Arabic, and nearly always the incorrectly formed script presents problems that result in a guessing game.

4th July 2008, 12:21 AM	#10
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I do not disagee with seeing bad spelling and some terrible handwiting is a problem. You must remember that artisians that are uneducated are very often copying the script off basically a template. I have often seen script written on the wall of a shop and copied letter by letter onto a piece. Just because you can speak arabic does not mean you can read or write. It still does not mean the language has changed. Allah in 800 A.D. is still Allah 2008 A.D.