Kalis: Origin of Minadanaon Kris

baganing_balyan · 30th June 2008, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

In other words, these "shorter" kris you are citing are not actually kris.

please do a research first what a punal or punyal is-- not from the book but from the people using it if there are.

baganing_balyan · 30th June 2008, 12:03 AM

that's what i have been saying all along-- the naming the mindanao weapons is extremely problematic. Some are coined to make them sound exotic.

David · 30th June 2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baganing_balyan

please do a research first what a punal or punyal is-- not from the book but from the people using it if there are.

Sorry, Baganing, i have done my research. The photo you link to showing what you claim to be kris are not kris at all. I don't care if you believe me. You credibility is shot as far as i am concerned. You don't seem to truly have a grasp at Moro weaponry, you are merely grasping at straws. Good luck with that.

baganing_balyan · 30th June 2008, 12:08 AM

are you telling me that the guy in yellow attire was holding a knife on his side? estimate the length of his kris using his fist. is that a knife?

can you tell me what is punal or punyal?

David · 30th June 2008, 12:15 AM

Well Baganing, look at the hilt form. Look at the sheath form. These are both common forms for punal and gunong. We can't see the blades in these pictures. Modern punals have gotten to be quite long in some cases. We see them for sale on eBay all the time. I have personally held quite a few of these modern longer punals in my hands on many occasion. I can not see the blades in these pictures, but i can almost guarantee that these blades do not have an asymetric blade like the kris, nor a gangya (insert spelling of your choice). These are not kris. Period. Learn your Moro weapons and we can discuss this later.

baganing_balyan · 30th June 2008, 12:20 AM

that's what i have been telling you.. hilts, handle heads, and sheaths vary among muslim groups. I even saw samal krises with shells on their sheaths and pearls on the handles and kalagans' with vines and animal hairs.

Talk to a maranao, maybe you won't question his credibility. e-bay is not really a good source for research. I would have used the images there a long time ago.

baganing_balyan · 30th June 2008, 12:23 AM

since you are an expert, can you tell me what punal or punyal is? while you are at it, tell me also its etymology.

I can. can you?

David · 30th June 2008, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baganing_balyan

that's what i have been telling you.. hilts, handle heads, and sheaths vary among muslim groups. I even saw samal krises with shells on their sheaths and pearls on the handles and kalagans' with vines and animal hairs.

Talk to a maranao, maybe you won't question his credibility. e-bay is not really a good source for research. I would have used the images there a long time ago.

I am not saying at all that eBay is a good source for research and you know it. What i am saying is that you don't know a kris from a punal and your credibility is shot. Period.
Of course, hilts and sheath vary, but the hilts and sheaths in the picture you linked to clearly shows that these are not kris. I am sorry that you don't fully understand what a kris is, but these are a different type of blade that doesn't have the gangya (separate or otherwise) that is necessary to distinguish the blade as a kris. Some call these punals. Some call them gugongs. But they are not kris.

David · 30th June 2008, 12:34 AM

Here is just one thread which showcases these large punals:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=punal
The word is Spanish. The etymology is not really important in this case, though i am so glad to hear that you know it.

baganing_balyan · 30th June 2008, 12:38 AM

I am not into bragging about my background. I challenge you to find a maranao and find out the truth yourself.

now tell me what is punal or punyal. Have you measured that guy's sword using his fist? is that a knife to you? How many fists can you make along the knife?
You can use fist because he was holding his sword. four or five fists? is that the length of punal? punal means knife. It's not a name of a blade.

30th June 2008, 12:03 AM	#2
baganing_balyan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 89	that's what i have been saying all along-- the naming the mindanao weapons is extremely problematic. Some are coined to make them sound exotic.

30th June 2008, 12:08 AM	#4
baganing_balyan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 89	are you telling me that the guy in yellow attire was holding a knife on his side? estimate the length of his kris using his fist. is that a knife? can you tell me what is punal or punyal?

30th June 2008, 12:15 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Well Baganing, look at the hilt form. Look at the sheath form. These are both common forms for punal and gunong. We can't see the blades in these pictures. Modern punals have gotten to be quite long in some cases. We see them for sale on eBay all the time. I have personally held quite a few of these modern longer punals in my hands on many occasion. I can not see the blades in these pictures, but i can almost guarantee that these blades do not have an asymetric blade like the kris, nor a gangya (insert spelling of your choice). These are not kris. Period. Learn your Moro weapons and we can discuss this later.

30th June 2008, 12:20 AM	#6
baganing_balyan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 89	that's what i have been telling you.. hilts, handle heads, and sheaths vary among muslim groups. I even saw samal krises with shells on their sheaths and pearls on the handles and kalagans' with vines and animal hairs. Talk to a maranao, maybe you won't question his credibility. e-bay is not really a good source for research. I would have used the images there a long time ago.

30th June 2008, 12:23 AM	#7
baganing_balyan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 89	since you are an expert, can you tell me what punal or punyal is? while you are at it, tell me also its etymology. I can. can you?

30th June 2008, 12:34 AM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Here is just one thread which showcases these large punals: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=punal The word is Spanish. The etymology is not really important in this case, though i am so glad to hear that you know it.

30th June 2008, 12:38 AM	#10
baganing_balyan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 89	I am not into bragging about my background. I challenge you to find a maranao and find out the truth yourself. now tell me what is punal or punyal. Have you measured that guy's sword using his fist? is that a knife to you? How many fists can you make along the knife? You can use fist because he was holding his sword. four or five fists? is that the length of punal? punal means knife. It's not a name of a blade.