It certainly is very old ... but what is it ?

fernando · 9th May 2008, 11:26 PM

This is the best i can get with my tired digital camera

.
Two shots from the mark side and one from the opposite side.
This afternoon i visited someone much more enlightened than me in these things. He is pritty much convinced this piece is a locally made rustic haft weapon (pike) head ... not a butt, nor an African item

.
On the other hand, he doesn't think this mark in the pictures is something intentional.

fernando · 11th May 2008, 01:25 AM

I am still intrigued with that misterious sort of mark. Althought this guy i met doesn't beleive it was made intentionally, i find it dificult to be an accidental flaw. But what do i know ?
No further coments, Gentlemen ?
I would love to hear more about its tendence to be European or African, after all that has been said, as also your opinions about it being (or not) a pike (or sort of) head.
Thans a lot.

M ELEY · 14th May 2008, 12:10 AM

Sorry...was away and just stumbled onto this thread. This is a Spanish colonial lance head with classic criss-cross markings and stars in the pre-Mexico styling. These markings are exactly like those found on several of my colonial cutlass (see Pirate weapons thread). I've seen several of these over the years and initially thought they might have been more South American in nature. Guachos used a primative lance with heads like this one. I know I saw one somewhere recently. Let me look around...

M ELEY · 14th May 2008, 12:17 AM

Well, not the good one I saw several months ago with similar decorations, but still, an example...
www.antiqueswords.com/bq943.htm

fernando · 14th May 2008, 12:56 AM

Thanks a lot Mark,
I will surely follow your track on Spanish colonial stuff, as i will be much obliged you come back with any further material.
The picture in the link is a start ... though my example looks a bit different ... cruder ... and older ?
Could you at any time post (me) pictures of those cutlasses with the mentioned criss cross and star markings ?
fernandoviana@netcabo.pt
Thanks again
Fernando

M ELEY · 22nd May 2008, 05:16 PM

Hello Fernando,
Sorry to take awhile getting back to this thread. I am extremely computer-challenged when it comes to posting pics. RSword/Rick has helped me in the past, but alas, he has moved away

Jim McDougal has personally held the cutlass in question, which he more positively identified as Brazilian and can attest to the striated lines and exact star markings on these Spanish pieces. I could try and photo them and snail-mail you a copy (if I'm lucky enough to get details out of photos) or a rubbing/tracing. Jim, do you happen to have any pics of espada with these star and line work markings??

M ELEY · 24th May 2008, 05:07 AM

OK, FINALLY found one of these. Well, Jim McDougal was right on again about these cutlass being Brazilian...this is a nice one! Anyway, I digress...
Check out this link-
www.jfsantiquearms.com/edged_weapons/60.html#
From here, look under "more Views" and select View 3.
Note the criss-cross patterning and star-like marking with dots.

9th May 2008, 11:26 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	This is the best i can get with my tired digital camera . Two shots from the mark side and one from the opposite side. This afternoon i visited someone much more enlightened than me in these things. He is pritty much convinced this piece is a locally made rustic haft weapon (pike) head ... not a butt, nor an African item . On the other hand, he doesn't think this mark in the pictures is something intentional. Attached Images

24th May 2008, 05:07 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,171	OK, FINALLY found one of these. Well, Jim McDougal was right on again about these cutlass being Brazilian...this is a nice one! Anyway, I digress... Check out this link- www.jfsantiquearms.com/edged_weapons/60.html# From here, look under "more Views" and select View 3. Note the criss-cross patterning and star-like marking with dots. Last edited by M ELEY; 24th May 2008 at 05:08 AM. Reason: mis-spelling

11th May 2008, 01:25 AM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I am still intrigued with that misterious sort of mark. Althought this guy i met doesn't beleive it was made intentionally, i find it dificult to be an accidental flaw. But what do i know ? No further coments, Gentlemen ? I would love to hear more about its tendence to be European or African, after all that has been said, as also your opinions about it being (or not) a pike (or sort of) head. Thans a lot.

14th May 2008, 12:10 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,171	Sorry...was away and just stumbled onto this thread. This is a Spanish colonial lance head with classic criss-cross markings and stars in the pre-Mexico styling. These markings are exactly like those found on several of my colonial cutlass (see Pirate weapons thread). I've seen several of these over the years and initially thought they might have been more South American in nature. Guachos used a primative lance with heads like this one. I know I saw one somewhere recently. Let me look around...

14th May 2008, 12:17 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,171	Well, not the good one I saw several months ago with similar decorations, but still, an example... www.antiqueswords.com/bq943.htm

14th May 2008, 12:56 AM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thanks a lot Mark, I will surely follow your track on Spanish colonial stuff, as i will be much obliged you come back with any further material. The picture in the link is a start ... though my example looks a bit different ... cruder ... and older ? Could you at any time post (me) pictures of those cutlasses with the mentioned criss cross and star markings ? fernandoviana@netcabo.pt Thanks again Fernando

22nd May 2008, 05:16 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,171	Hello Fernando, Sorry to take awhile getting back to this thread. I am extremely computer-challenged when it comes to posting pics. RSword/Rick has helped me in the past, but alas, he has moved away Jim McDougal has personally held the cutlass in question, which he more positively identified as Brazilian and can attest to the striated lines and exact star markings on these Spanish pieces. I could try and photo them and snail-mail you a copy (if I'm lucky enough to get details out of photos) or a rubbing/tracing. Jim, do you happen to have any pics of espada with these star and line work markings??