Kurdistan dagger

[RSWORD]

Alex made many excellent points in regards to how different wootz reacts to a polish and etch. A superb pattern would have been preserved by most generations and this is why they are easy to etch because they would have received few polishes in their lifetime when well preserved. In regards to your two pieces just a couple of suggestions. On your dagger which is exhibiting sham pattern I recommend you bump up your etchant from vinegar to the Ferric Chloride. Make sure your blade is well cleaned before applying etchant. You want to remove as much rust as possible. Wipe blade clean with alcohol and then with gloves apply liberally the etchant solution, most dilute 3:1 or 4:1 with water, and continue for several minutes watching closely the blade for any improvement in the appearance of the pattern. Most importantly, you need to neutralize after each etch. A baking soda paste applied liberally to the blade will do fine. Dry the blade well and immediately oil blade. The etchant may leave some discoloration if not washed off and neutralized but this can be easily removed with some metal polish and a soft cloth. You can repeat the process several times to see if you get improved results.

With your twist core yat, one possible way to bring out pattern better, and this requires a lot of patience, is to polish the blade, follow process as mentioned above, rinse and neutralize and then polish blade again and repeat process. You may need to do the cycle 4 or 5 times to really start bringing the pattern out. Remember though, each time you polish(with stones, sandpaper, etc.) you remove tiny bits of metal from the surface. Over long periods of time the original contours of a blade can be compromised from over cleaning. However, this takes decades if not centuries of continued use so a cycle of 4 or 5 times should not be an issue.

Importanlty, as Alex comments, not all patterns are of high contrast. Take sham wootz for example. I have seen a tremendous range of contrast, pattern quality and consistency, ie no dead spots, within this one branch of pattern. So, if the original blade was of low contrast with minimal pattern and maybe forged at a slightly too high temperature resulting in some dead spots, then guess what. The blade is going to be that way today. However, with a blade out of polish, we often do not know until it has been etched. This is why some people will polish a window in a blade because you can focus on one spot, see how it turns out, before investing many hours to bring a full blade back into good polish.

Best of luck with your pieces!

[TVV]

Thank you so much, this is the kind of advice I was looking for.

[ALEX]

RSWORD, Thank you for a great sum-up. I've learned a lot from you in the past, and it continues - always appreciate your knowledge and comments.
I agree - the pattern is sham, and FeCl will be a best bet. Sometimes, especially when etching Sham - the surface may turn yellowish. Adding little Nital (2% Nitric Acid solution) to FeCl will help to avoid it.

Also, a great question from Gonzalo. Was wootz produced by Kurds in Kurdistan? Kurdistan was/is part of Iraq, but Kurds historically lived in Iraq, Iran, Turkey and Syria. and wootz ores were discovered in Persia as well as in Iraq, so my quess is that wootz blades were part of Persian trade, and the fittings were added as part of local "customising". Does anyone has any references/comments about this?
Good luck to all.

[Gonzalo G]

Alex, thank you very much for your comment. Do you meant iron ores, since wootz a product made of iron, carbon and other igredients? I don´t have a map with the ancient iron ores sites distribution, but it would be interesting to have one and begin to make some inferences.
All my best

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

...Do you meant iron ores, since wootz a product made of iron, carbon and other igredients? I don´t have a map with the ancient iron ores sites distribution, but it would be interesting to have one and begin to make some inferences.
All my best

Gonzalo, let me venture a guess:

The common knowledge is that wootz ignots were exported from India to the Middle East. Damascus was a main arms production center in Syria, and Isfahan - in Persia. Isfahan in particular was well known to produce arms from locally mined iron ore, and wootz ignots from Khorossan area in Northwest Persia were mined and shipped to Isfahan and other production centers in Persia (the Khorossan is also a name of one of the wootz patterns – “Kara Khorossan” - a darker oilish pattern.)
I do not know if Persian wootz ignots were exported elsewhere, or if there were other ore sources in other regions, but perhaps it explains why Persian wootz is considered to be superior to Indian (and I know that some people will object to this theory, but be it a myth or legend – this notion has been around for a while, so it has to be a reason behing it

[Lew]

Alex

Wootz ingots were shippied as far as China and possibly Japan.

Lew

[Jeff Pringle]

I’d say definitely Japan, this article has photos of several types of imported steel (Nanbantetsu) from the late 1500 - early 1600s and kept in a shrine since, two of them look to be crucible product and have wootz-y chemistry, as far as reported in the article.
日本刀の鍛錬性に及ぼす南蛮鉄のリン含有量の影響
Effect of Phosphorus Content of Nanban-tetsu on Forgeability of Japanese Sword Making
鈴木 卓夫
Suzuki Takuo
Vol.90, No.1(20040100) pp. 43-47
The Iron and Steel Institute of Japan (ISIJ) ISSN:00211575
http://ci.nii.ac.jp/naid/110001457670/en/
(no, I don’t read Japanese, fortunately the photos, figures and tables are in English)
Hyotan and koban in particular look like semi-processed wootz ingots.

The best references I’ve found for mining, sword making and trade info are “Persian Steel, The Tannivoli Collection” with quite a lot of info on metal trade and manufacture in Persia, and “Medieval Islamic Swords and Swordmaking” the new translation of al Kindi’s 9th Century description of where and how various swords were made, he specifically mentions indigenous production of Khurasani swords; I think that is called Kurdistan now, NE Iraq.

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by ALEX

I do not know if Persian wootz ignots were exported elsewhere, or if there were other ore sources in other regions, but perhaps it explains why Persian wootz is considered to be superior to Indian (and I know that some people will object to this theory, but be it a myth or legend – this notion has been around for a while, so it has to be a reason behing it

Please excuse me, Alex, and I expect not being making a big disgression, I did not understand the reason why persian wootz is considered superior to indian. It has been said that Damascus was importer, and latter producer of wootz. In relation with your beautiful khanjar, I was thinking if there are some reference to other centers of wootz production, though I see that you consider that the blade was a trade one from Persia, I´m sure for some good reason. I don´t have information about Kurdistan production of minerals and weapons, except for the khanjars I use to find on the web, and the wootz as a subject, is of great interest for me. If you can give me some orientation to this respect, I will appreciate it very much.
My best regards

Gonzalo

[Gonzalo G]

Jeff, sorry, I was writting my post and I didn´t see yours. You have some good responses to my questions, thank you.
Regards

Gonzalo