Video, poison keris blade

[Bill S]

Originally Posted by David

Perhaps, but this is quite a different topic from the one we are discussion here.

Maybe not. If the "unseen poison" is an integral part of the keris folklore, it may well be the basis of stories about keris being dipped in poison. People who might be unwilling to accept the concept of metaphysical poisons may translate the idea into chemical poisons to put it into a realm they can accept.

[David]

Originally Posted by Bill S

Maybe not. If the "unseen poison" is an integral part of the keris folklore, it may well be the basis of stories about keris being dipped in poison. People who might be unwilling to accept the concept of metaphysical poisons may translate the idea into chemical poisons to put it into a realm they can accept.

You may have a good point here Bill. It does seem to me from all of the discussion that we have had on this subject that the practice of physically adding poison to the keris blade was not a general or universal one. This is not to say that no one has ever done it.

[Pusaka]

It works both ways, the Silat guru who told me about the frog poison used on keris blades said that the subsequent death of those cut by it was seen as magical and was interpreted by many as supernatural powers

[Bill S]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

... the Silat guru who told me about .....

I know close to nothing about Silat or Silat gurus, but perhaps Pusaka (or anyone else) could explain a little. In Japanese traditional martial arts there are recorded histories and descriptions of the techniques and traditions, even though these written records are not always accessible to outsiders. Is this true also of Silat? Would the use of poisons be documented somewhere? Or are these oral traditions, subject to change with each generation? Are there traditional schools of Silat (such as Yagyu school of swordsmanship, Ogasawara school of archery, etc.) or does each guru start his own school?

This is diverting a little from the original thread here, but I'm doing so to get an idea of how historically documentable the sources are for use of poisons.

[fearn]

Sorry for joining in late as well.

Couple of points:

a) while the arrow-poison frogs are indeed limited to the new world, poisons on toads are not. They are not as toxic as the arrow-poison (dendrobatid) frogs, but they can cause trouble. Or, if you're interested in an unpleasant trip, you can try "toad licking."

2) Cadavers and feces are pretty toxic, not because they have venoms, but because of bacteria. In a pre-antibiotic setting, in the tropics, septic wounds are bad.

iii) Since somebody brought up voodoo, we can also talk about the process of zombie-making, which involves poisoning people with a sublethal dose of tetrodotoxin from puffer fish. This is off-topic, but it is worth pointing out that a ritual/magical execution can have some sophisticated pharmacology associated with it.

Fortunately for us collectors, most of this gunk doesn't stay with the blades. I'd hate to have a poisoned blade lying around in a collection. I would be the person at most danger from it.

my 0.003 cents,

F

[Tim Simmons]

I can see no reason why a keris may not be made all the more lethal by the same methords, making a nick or small slash deadly.

lots more here.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1540610

Animals hit by a poison dart, irrespective of the part of the body that is pierced, start to twitch after a few seconds. This state lasts several minutes as the animal's condition worsens and convulsions occur. The animals lose consciousness at an accelerating rate. The throes of death last longer with large animals like wild boar or deer. Death is ultimately due to cardiac failure. The cardiac glycoside affects the Na+K+ATPase activity of the heart muscle membrane (Boer et al. 1999: 127

[A. G. Maisey]

The ipoh tree and the upas tree are the same tree.

Its upas in Jawa, ipoh in the Peninsula.