Scottish basket hilts and edged weapons

[Jim McDougall]

Fantastic! and well done Jeff. This is exactly where I hoped this would go. To focus on the various forms and thier development. As noted, the Twysden is quite early, and the blank saltire plates and connecting strips of the general form apparantly continue on many of the later English hilts in the 18th century. The ribbon hilt, as noted, seems about mid 17th century, though most that I have seen would seem c.1680-90.

I am curious on the pierced saltire plates and it seems they might have begun with influence from the pierced hearts I mentioned on some German dusagge basket hilt plates. I would like to discover also if possible, were the Glasgow hilts the earliest to use the pierced shapes?

Thank you Jeff!
All the best,
Jim

[Chris Evans]

Gentlemen,

I have been following this thread with great interest and would like to say that it is extremely informative. The level of contribution, that is scholarship, is terrific.

For those who are in possesion of antiques, it would be nice if they could provide the vital stats of the weapons, like weight, blade length, width, position of COP etc.

Keep is up. I am learning heaps.

Cheers
Chris

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you very much Chris! and that is an excellent suggestion on adding the stats on weapons posted. What is great about these type of discussions focused on a particular topic is that we can all pool resources, share the weapons owned privately, as well as seen in museums, and thereby all learn together. Thank you for the kind words, and the very helpful suggestion.

All the best,
Jim

[Jeff D]

Hi Jim,
Lets get through the basics and see if the forum can come up with an answer (ie. I don't have an answer but will keep looking ).

Hi Chris,
Hopefully I can dig out the swords and get a few answers for you.

All the Best
Jeff

[Jeff D]

The next group are the 'Thin-barred simple hilts'. There appears to be some controversy whether these developed from the Twysden hilts or in parallel with them from thin bared precursors.
This type evolved into the hilt types we are more familiar with. Using images from Mazansky you can see the evolution. 1 the earlest and 7 the latest.

(mods is it possible to organize the pictures in sequence as it makes more sense that way/ thanks /Jeff)

[Jeff D]

This Brings us to the 18-19th century with the 'Conventional hilts'. The garrison towns of Glasgow and Stirling became the major centers of manufacturing.
Prior to 1745 they supplied both Hanoverian and jacobite factions, after they supplied the Highland regiments and British cavalry. Most of the hilts were made in a cottage industry fashion being produced in small shops in the areas. A few big names are associated with each area as well.

Glasgow Hilts;
The family most associated with these are the Simpsons (no relation to Bart, Jessica or OJ). Quoting Mazansky ' The bars are of flattened rectangular section. They have deep flutes flanked by engraved line on each side' . He goes on in much more detail about the shields and guards as well. Below is 3 Glasgow hilts, the flat grooved bars are clearly seen. The picture with 6 hilts is from Whitelaw all signed Glasgow makers. note that Fig 3. shows that the rule doesn't always hold.

[Jeff D]

Stirling hilts;

The Allan family is the most famous hilt makers from this area. Unlike the Glasgow hilts these tend to be more varied 'artistic'. The bars are round to flattened but lack the grooves.