Keris for comments

A. G. Maisey · 21st February 2008, 08:56 PM

Yes, I believe the gold pin was inserted to provide protection to the wearer against any negative forces emanating from the blade.

As to age, I cannot get a clear feeling for this blade, but in my opinion it is very probably pre-1800. This estimate could change if I were to handle it.

Flavio · 23rd February 2008, 10:20 AM

Hello Alan, I have this keris with a hole near the gangya. Is it possible that in origin the hole was filled with a gold pin? thank you

rasdan · 23rd February 2008, 11:05 AM

Hi Flavio,

If the tang is intact and that small hole does not goes through, it can be a maker's signature. But i have'nt seen a circular one before.

Flavio · 23rd February 2008, 09:36 PM

Hello Rasdan, yes the tang is intact.

P.S. I have checked and the hole is on both sides but it is not passing...

A. G. Maisey · 24th February 2008, 06:01 AM

Anything is possible Flavio.

I don't know what this indentation is. No idea. We could guess and hypothesize all we like, but right now we're just looking at an indentation in the blade.

Rasdan, what's the story on "maker's signature"? That's a new one on me. Can you give us the how's, when's, where's and why's of this?

Thanks.

rasdan · 24th February 2008, 04:13 PM

Here's what i know about markings Alan.

The markings normally occur on Pandai Saras and malela blades. I haven't seen one on a Malay blade (like Flavio's keris) before. What i know is that in north eastern part of the Peninsula and southern Thai, some keris blades have specific markings. Some say it is a makers mark, some say it is made if the empu is really satisfied with his work. It is also said to be a mark to distinguish special keris with significant esoteric distinction compared with others. I normally avoid to discuss this topic as it is highly disputable, but all that depends on what we believe.

I dont know when this practice starts. Unlike the infamous "pemangkang jagad" and "retak dagu" formations that is regarded as auspicious, I havent found any written reference that states that these markings on keris blades are regarded as lucky. But, I haven't been reading enough, i presume. Anyhow, they are highly sought after due the scarcity of these blades. Attached are the photos of markings on keris the blades picked from our past threads.

A. G. Maisey · 24th February 2008, 09:47 PM

Thanks Rasdan.

This is a new story for me.Never heard it before. I suppose if the practice was limited to a particular area, it could have some truth in it, but it is most certainly out of step with practice in the part of the world that I know.

I remember seeing that criss-cross pattern keris before. My bet is that that is a keris made from a file. Could be an imprint from vice jaws, but I doubt it, the pattern is too distinct.

23rd February 2008, 10:20 AM	#2
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Alan, I have this keris with a hole near the gangya. Is it possible that in origin the hole was filled with a gold pin? thank you Attached Images

23rd February 2008, 09:36 PM	#4
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Rasdan, yes the tang is intact. P.S. I have checked and the hole is on both sides but it is not passing... Last edited by Flavio; 23rd February 2008 at 09:49 PM.

24th February 2008, 04:13 PM	#6
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Here's what i know about markings Alan. The markings normally occur on Pandai Saras and malela blades. I haven't seen one on a Malay blade (like Flavio's keris) before. What i know is that in north eastern part of the Peninsula and southern Thai, some keris blades have specific markings. Some say it is a makers mark, some say it is made if the empu is really satisfied with his work. It is also said to be a mark to distinguish special keris with significant esoteric distinction compared with others. I normally avoid to discuss this topic as it is highly disputable, but all that depends on what we believe. I dont know when this practice starts. Unlike the infamous "pemangkang jagad" and "retak dagu" formations that is regarded as auspicious, I havent found any written reference that states that these markings on keris blades are regarded as lucky. But, I haven't been reading enough, i presume. Anyhow, they are highly sought after due the scarcity of these blades. Attached are the photos of markings on keris the blades picked from our past threads. Attached Images Last edited by rasdan; 24th February 2008 at 04:23 PM.

21st February 2008, 08:56 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Yes, I believe the gold pin was inserted to provide protection to the wearer against any negative forces emanating from the blade. As to age, I cannot get a clear feeling for this blade, but in my opinion it is very probably pre-1800. This estimate could change if I were to handle it.

23rd February 2008, 11:05 AM	#3
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi Flavio, If the tang is intact and that small hole does not goes through, it can be a maker's signature. But i have'nt seen a circular one before.

24th February 2008, 06:01 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Anything is possible Flavio. I don't know what this indentation is. No idea. We could guess and hypothesize all we like, but right now we're just looking at an indentation in the blade. Rasdan, what's the story on "maker's signature"? That's a new one on me. Can you give us the how's, when's, where's and why's of this? Thanks.

24th February 2008, 09:47 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Thanks Rasdan. This is a new story for me.Never heard it before. I suppose if the practice was limited to a particular area, it could have some truth in it, but it is most certainly out of step with practice in the part of the world that I know. I remember seeing that criss-cross pattern keris before. My bet is that that is a keris made from a file. Could be an imprint from vice jaws, but I doubt it, the pattern is too distinct.