Rattan helmet, maybe Vietnamese

Nick Wardigo · 29th January 2008, 04:43 AM

A soldier from South Vietnam (Cochinchina), circa 1850.

fearn · 29th January 2008, 05:01 AM

Neat headpiece, Nick. One thing I'm interested in is how thick the main strand of rattan is. If it's a functional helmet, then the rattan needs to be thick enough to absorb a blow. Otherwise, it could be primarily a fashionable hat, as your wife so ably demonstrates.

F

Chris Evans · 29th January 2008, 05:13 AM

Nick,

I chanced on your query out of curiosity and do not profess knowing anything about this helmet. I asked my secretary, who is a Thai and she immediately said that it was Vietnamese. She knows nothing about armour and arrived at her conclusion on the strength of appearances.

Cheers
Chris

Tim Simmons · 29th January 2008, 07:10 AM

Wives can be really handy in so many ways. What a super thing to have.

ariel · 29th January 2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Nick,

I chanced on your query out of curiosity and do not profess knowing anything about this helmet. I asked my secretary, who is a Thai and she immediately said that it was Vietnamese. She knows nothing about armour and arrived at her conclusion on the strength of appearances.

Cheers
Chris

At the end of the day, it is always the secretary who has the last word

josh stout · 29th January 2008, 03:07 PM

Here is an example of a Chinese rattan helmet. It is a bit different, and may be asymetrical to give more overhang for the face. European accounts describe Chinese soldiers using them in the water, but I would imagine they were widely used.
Josh

http://forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?...ighlight=naval

Nick Wardigo · 30th January 2008, 12:47 AM

Thank you everyone for your responses.

Fearn:
The hat/helmet is very sturdy. At it's base, it is nearly .75 inches thick. I suspect the main spiral of rattan is actually a double layer, but it is weaved so tightly that there's no way to prove this without deconstructing the thing. It probably is tough enough to absorb a sword blow, but more to the point, it's definitely tough enough to DEFLECT a sword blow. The particularly steep incline seems well-suited to deflecting an overhead strike...even the very top is peaked by a cone-shaped piece of wood. I think the construction, coupled by the soldier illustration, makes a good argument that this is a helmet rather than a hat. You are correct, however, that my wife makes it look so stylish that it is easily mistaken for a fashion statement.

Chris:
Please thank your secretary for me. Would you mind asking her to be a little more specific? I'd like to know what characteristics about it make it look Vietnamese to her.

Josh:
Yes, I followed this thread with great interest when Scott first posted the photo. These photos depict fairly typical Chinese rattan helmets. The obvious difference is that the Chinese use vertical strips of rattan to construct the "bowl," whereas this helmet uses a spiral of rattan, held together by thinner rattan strips, weaved into the spiral vertically (again, very like Chinese and Vietnamese shields). The Vietnamese also used a helmet similar to these Chinese examples; I'm attaching a postcard depicting a couple of Vietnamese soldiers, circa 1910. Curiously, I haven't found any depictions of spirally-constructed helmets in China, despite them having shields of that construction.

Mark · 30th January 2008, 07:39 PM

Vietnamese is very plausible. It is nothing like the war hats used in Burma & Thailand, which are more like sombreros, with wide brims. I have a book of illustrations made during the French Mekong expedition in the late 1800's, in which a number of ethnic groups are shown. When I get home tonight I will flip through it and see if I can find a match.

Chris Evans · 1st February 2008, 06:53 AM

Nick,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Wardigo

Chris:
Please thank your secretary for me. Would you mind asking her to be a little more specific? I'd like to know what characteristics about it make it look Vietnamese to her.

She said looks! Couldn't be more specific, save than to say that hast like that are not worn in her country.

Cheers
Chris

29th January 2008, 04:43 AM	#1
Nick Wardigo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 54	A soldier from South Vietnam (Cochinchina), circa 1850. Attached Images

30th January 2008, 12:47 AM	#7
Nick Wardigo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 54	Thank you everyone for your responses. Fearn: The hat/helmet is very sturdy. At it's base, it is nearly .75 inches thick. I suspect the main spiral of rattan is actually a double layer, but it is weaved so tightly that there's no way to prove this without deconstructing the thing. It probably is tough enough to absorb a sword blow, but more to the point, it's definitely tough enough to DEFLECT a sword blow. The particularly steep incline seems well-suited to deflecting an overhead strike...even the very top is peaked by a cone-shaped piece of wood. I think the construction, coupled by the soldier illustration, makes a good argument that this is a helmet rather than a hat. You are correct, however, that my wife makes it look so stylish that it is easily mistaken for a fashion statement. Chris: Please thank your secretary for me. Would you mind asking her to be a little more specific? I'd like to know what characteristics about it make it look Vietnamese to her. Josh: Yes, I followed this thread with great interest when Scott first posted the photo. These photos depict fairly typical Chinese rattan helmets. The obvious difference is that the Chinese use vertical strips of rattan to construct the "bowl," whereas this helmet uses a spiral of rattan, held together by thinner rattan strips, weaved into the spiral vertically (again, very like Chinese and Vietnamese shields). The Vietnamese also used a helmet similar to these Chinese examples; I'm attaching a postcard depicting a couple of Vietnamese soldiers, circa 1910. Curiously, I haven't found any depictions of spirally-constructed helmets in China, despite them having shields of that construction. Attached Images

29th January 2008, 05:01 AM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Neat headpiece, Nick. One thing I'm interested in is how thick the main strand of rattan is. If it's a functional helmet, then the rattan needs to be thick enough to absorb a blow. Otherwise, it could be primarily a fashionable hat, as your wife so ably demonstrates. F

29th January 2008, 05:13 AM	#3
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Nick, I chanced on your query out of curiosity and do not profess knowing anything about this helmet. I asked my secretary, who is a Thai and she immediately said that it was Vietnamese. She knows nothing about armour and arrived at her conclusion on the strength of appearances. Cheers Chris

29th January 2008, 07:10 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Wives can be really handy in so many ways. What a super thing to have.

29th January 2008, 03:07 PM	#6
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Here is an example of a Chinese rattan helmet. It is a bit different, and may be asymetrical to give more overhang for the face. European accounts describe Chinese soldiers using them in the water, but I would imagine they were widely used. Josh http://forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?...ighlight=naval

30th January 2008, 07:39 PM	#8
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Vietnamese is very plausible. It is nothing like the war hats used in Burma & Thailand, which are more like sombreros, with wide brims. I have a book of illustrations made during the French Mekong expedition in the late 1800's, in which a number of ethnic groups are shown. When I get home tonight I will flip through it and see if I can find a match.