Santa comes late

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gavin,

Originally Posted by freebooter

I nearly forgot Chris, with your experience with metal, what light can you shed on the old process these old cutlers used for "tempering" of the handle of these brass handled knives. I know much of the light guage brass sheet metal I have used over the years is too flimsy to be of any benefit of a knife handle, what is it that they have done to add strength to these handles.

I am not sure if I understand your question, but it appears that you would like to know how brass sheet of a given thickness can be strengthened. If so, here it goes:

Brass used by cutlers, gains strength by cold working (hammering, rolling etc) and loses it by being heated (annealed).

Brass sheet, rod and wire is sold in various hardness grades. The hardest and strongest being severely work hardened, whilst the softest and weakest is annealed. As the brass is worked, it gains strength in proportion to the deformation induced by the process.

The trick is to start out with the highest temper that will be able to take the anticipated working. Start out with one that is too hard and the piece will crack. Too soft and it will not be sufficiently strong for the application.
This guessing game can sometimes be simplified by choosing a softer temper and compensating for any lack of strength by increasing thickness or diameter.

As for the old cutlers of the 18th and 19th century, I am not sure how they obtained their brass sheets. I imagine that some may have rolled their own, whilst others must have bought it from a supplier. Be this as it may, the above principles applied then as today.

Cheers
Chris

[fernando]

Hi Gav
You can thank Father Christmas for those nice pieces.
Concerning the cuchilo Canario ( naife ), could you show us a close up picture of that dot engraving on the blade ?
You might as well check if there are any small marks struck on the blade back, right after the ferule, like combinations of X an I. In an early period, the smiths used to mark the blades with such symbols, representing family marks.
Fernando

[Gavin Nugent]

I will try to get a photo when the sun shines a little more here. As for the "X" and "I", you are right, the is what looks like X's and I's, I too will get a photo up here soon.

Thanks

Gav

[Gavin Nugent]

Photos as requested. I look forward to hearing more about this superb knife.

thanks

Gavin

[fernando]

I forgot that it is daylight in Australia at this moment
Others will tell you about the dot marks ... i confess i didn't know such procedure until now ... was just curious.
But the marks on the blade back are surely old ( family ) makers marks.
Look at my piece, as another example.

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks for highlighting these points of interest. Is there any one within this forum who can reveal more on the family markings of these knives, if information is available, perhaps they can be posted both here and in Jim's postings regarding trade markings as well to get a broader overview of this era in knife/sword making history.

many thanks

Gavin

[carlos]

CONGRATULATIONS, THERE ARE A GOOD PIECES OF SPANISH ARMS AND ITALIAN. IHAVE THIS LINKS TO NAIFE KNIVES ( CANARY ISLANDS KNIVES )

http://www.pardelera.com/Webnaife/

http://www.infonortedigital.com/publ...es/docs/76.pdf

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Thanks for highlighting these points of interest. Is there any one within this forum who can reveal more on the family markings of these knives, if information is available, perhaps they can be posted both here and in Jim's postings regarding trade markings as well to get a broader overview of this era in knife/sword making history.

many thanks

Gavin

Hi Gav,
Thank you so much for suggesting posting this on the thread on markings! I was just thinking that as I read the thread and then saw your post.
It's really interesting that these marks on the back of the blade are somewhat like the back of some SE Asian weapons, which was just mentioned on the thread on marking of weapons:anthropologically and sociologically ( geez I need a shorter title!) . Anyway, it seems on the SE Asian weapons these marks might be tribal and possibly even, as this, family identifying.

All very best regards,
Jim