Pirate swords and weapons

fernando · 23rd December 2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy

But still, it looks nice on my wall.

You already answered my next question

I wouldn't mind fixing that problem of the nail stuck in the fire hole

.

Jim McDougall · 24th December 2007, 11:06 PM

Fernando, thank you for the great posts of these illustrations! These are great for point of reference as we look at how artists and illustrators perceived the weapons carried by the pirates, and we wonder how accurate or fanciful these renderings are.
I think poor Captain Kidd really got a bad rap!
All the best,
Jim

kronckew · 25th December 2007, 06:21 AM

as mentioned by jim in post no. 1 there is more than just the caribbean,
the indonesian/malayan/phillipines were (and still are) famous for their
piratical endeavours.

the sea dyaks (iban) were amoungst those feared eastern pirates, and their parangs were ideal for close encounters of the maritime kind, they were especially fond of making sure their clients stayed with them for a long time, but tended to make them a bit more portable by just taking the heads back as guests. limited the conversation a bit.

my sea dyak parang of Langgai Tinggang type (looks late 20c)

19" blade, 1/4" at grip, distal tapered to point, 2 brass 'dot' blade inserts near tip and 1 in the krowit. crudely carved wood grip & scabbard with fancy rattanwork...

i suspect my klewang with the fur covered (90% of fur is gone) leather scabbard & brass guard & grip (leather wound) was also of piratical origin.

19.5" blade, 3/8" at grip (1/4" at 1" from grip) distal taper to 1/8" at tip, concaved blade spine to halfway, then spine is grooved either side to the tip, single fuller runs the full length. blade tip appears to have been shortened.

Jim McDougall · 25th December 2007, 07:10 PM

Thank you for posting these Kronckew! The sea Dyaks were definitely one of the groups from those regions I was referring to. The parang (I believe often termed also 'mandau') is not surprisingly included in some references I have seen showing groupings of a variety of 'pirate' weapons. I am not sure of the range of the Sea Dyaks beyond thier home regions, but I would not be surprised if some of them joined other pirate crews on individual basis. These parangs might have been adopted by crewmen of ships that visited these regions as well, which seems a plausible speculation.

The 'klewang' you show is also very interesting, especially the wrapped grip and mount components which appear of Japanese katana style. It seems that in discussions some time ago concerning Japanese influences on the weapons in SE Asia, it was noted that many groups of river pirates in the rivers deep inland in SE Asia were comprised of many Japanese. I vaguely recall even a katana type sword captioned as from India, though I had serious reservations on complete acceptance of that attribution.
The hilt on this example with the upward and downward quillons on the guard of course also reflects Chinese sidearms including those attributed to Chinese river pirates. Those groups were still extremely active well into the 20th century and a great movie that included that topic was "The Sand Pebbles" with Steve McQueen. I do not recall specifically details such as weapons from the movie, but thought the subject worthy of note.

All best regards,
Jim

kronckew · 25th December 2007, 08:45 PM

hi jim, interesting thoughts on the one that was billed as a 'klewang' by it's previous owner who mentioned it might have been confiscated from pirates. could be chinese with the point reground. here we go using terms that just mean 'sword' locally. it was purported to have come from malaysia.

i also have this bornean (?) parang on the way from birmingham*,

while it looks a bit like a dyak parang ilang, it's apparently not a mandau (double knife). the blade supposedly is from around 1900, but the dress has been restored. will have better idea when it arrives (would have been easier to drive the hour up there, but it's coming via Royal Mail

).

* the UK one, the Alabama one woulda been a two hour trip from home in morgan county.

fernando · 28th December 2007, 07:44 PM

Also pistols like this one are said to have been were used by pirates ... those with more wealth.
This is a Queen Anne pistol, assumedly from the the XVIII century.

Gavin Nugent · 5th January 2008, 09:58 AM

A long time coming with these pics as with a lot of threads I do wish to add my bit too. Below are a series of engravings from a time life book that should give a good indications of the weapons carried by them there pirates arrg!!

Also a great read for anyone interest in these pirate stories and discoveries from the bottom of the sea would be any books by Barry Clifford, the research and insight into the life and times of these misplaced men is amazing.

I beleive if you right click and attempt to save the image it will reveal the name of the pictured Pirate for those who are interested.

There is also an image of weapons of the day and it is said all these weapons are carried at once for most excursions as they had to be a walking arsenal but both long arms were most likely not carried at the same time. As seen in one engraving 6 more more pistols were carried by some.

Gav

25th December 2007, 06:21 AM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	as mentioned by jim in post no. 1 there is more than just the caribbean, the indonesian/malayan/phillipines were (and still are) famous for their piratical endeavours. the sea dyaks (iban) were amoungst those feared eastern pirates, and their parangs were ideal for close encounters of the maritime kind, they were especially fond of making sure their clients stayed with them for a long time, but tended to make them a bit more portable by just taking the heads back as guests. limited the conversation a bit. my sea dyak parang of Langgai Tinggang type (looks late 20c) 19" blade, 1/4" at grip, distal tapered to point, 2 brass 'dot' blade inserts near tip and 1 in the krowit. crudely carved wood grip & scabbard with fancy rattanwork... i suspect my klewang with the fur covered (90% of fur is gone) leather scabbard & brass guard & grip (leather wound) was also of piratical origin. 19.5" blade, 3/8" at grip (1/4" at 1" from grip) distal taper to 1/8" at tip, concaved blade spine to halfway, then spine is grooved either side to the tip, single fuller runs the full length. blade tip appears to have been shortened. Last edited by kronckew; 25th December 2007 at 06:46 AM.

28th December 2007, 07:44 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Also pistols like this one are said to have been were used by pirates ... those with more wealth. This is a Queen Anne pistol, assumedly from the the XVIII century. Attached Images

5th January 2008, 09:58 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Pirate weapons A long time coming with these pics as with a lot of threads I do wish to add my bit too. Below are a series of engravings from a time life book that should give a good indications of the weapons carried by them there pirates arrg!! Also a great read for anyone interest in these pirate stories and discoveries from the bottom of the sea would be any books by Barry Clifford, the research and insight into the life and times of these misplaced men is amazing. I beleive if you right click and attempt to save the image it will reveal the name of the pictured Pirate for those who are interested. There is also an image of weapons of the day and it is said all these weapons are carried at once for most excursions as they had to be a walking arsenal but both long arms were most likely not carried at the same time. As seen in one engraving 6 more more pistols were carried by some. Gav Attached Images

24th December 2007, 11:06 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Fernando, thank you for the great posts of these illustrations! These are great for point of reference as we look at how artists and illustrators perceived the weapons carried by the pirates, and we wonder how accurate or fanciful these renderings are. I think poor Captain Kidd really got a bad rap! All the best, Jim

25th December 2007, 07:10 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Thank you for posting these Kronckew! The sea Dyaks were definitely one of the groups from those regions I was referring to. The parang (I believe often termed also 'mandau') is not surprisingly included in some references I have seen showing groupings of a variety of 'pirate' weapons. I am not sure of the range of the Sea Dyaks beyond thier home regions, but I would not be surprised if some of them joined other pirate crews on individual basis. These parangs might have been adopted by crewmen of ships that visited these regions as well, which seems a plausible speculation. The 'klewang' you show is also very interesting, especially the wrapped grip and mount components which appear of Japanese katana style. It seems that in discussions some time ago concerning Japanese influences on the weapons in SE Asia, it was noted that many groups of river pirates in the rivers deep inland in SE Asia were comprised of many Japanese. I vaguely recall even a katana type sword captioned as from India, though I had serious reservations on complete acceptance of that attribution. The hilt on this example with the upward and downward quillons on the guard of course also reflects Chinese sidearms including those attributed to Chinese river pirates. Those groups were still extremely active well into the 20th century and a great movie that included that topic was "The Sand Pebbles" with Steve McQueen. I do not recall specifically details such as weapons from the movie, but thought the subject worthy of note. All best regards, Jim

25th December 2007, 08:45 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	hi jim, interesting thoughts on the one that was billed as a 'klewang' by it's previous owner who mentioned it might have been confiscated from pirates. could be chinese with the point reground. here we go using terms that just mean 'sword' locally. it was purported to have come from malaysia. i also have this bornean (?) parang on the way from birmingham, while it looks a bit like a dyak parang ilang, it's apparently not a mandau (double knife). the blade supposedly is from around 1900, but the dress has been restored. will have better idea when it arrives (would have been easier to drive the hour up there, but it's coming via Royal Mail ). the UK one, the Alabama one woulda been a two hour trip from home in morgan county.