ID need of man with spear

Pukka Bundook · 20th December 2007, 02:59 PM

I have a good friend, who in the 70's spent some time amongst the Asmat people of PNG.
He has some spears he brought home that (to me ) look identical to this one. From his photos, this man looks to be from the same race, too.
The only thing is that on my friends photos, the men on ceremonial occasions wore a curled shell ornament through their noses. these were taken out and I gather not worn at all times.

Very good picture, BTW.

Richard.

PS, on looking at the picture with the arm-band, I recall similar arm-bands on my friends pictures. They were made with feathers, often in bright colours.

I could ask him to send some pictures, as he does have complete sets of costumes and weaponry belonging to these people.

Tim Simmons · 20th December 2007, 05:30 PM

In my opinion this fellow is nothing to do with Papuans. He looks very much a Negrito which is a rather catch all word. These two chaps in this picture taken in Malaya, could be the brothers of the spear holding man. The spear would fit the Malayan jungle people. As has been noted the spread of these people is in South East Asia/ Australasia. Papuans are Melanesians in the sience of these things quite different I believe.

These links have some bearing on the matter. I would still say the chap in question is not Melanesian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Australoid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid
A bit like calling Naga's Indian?

fearn · 20th December 2007, 08:11 PM

Hi Tim,

I tend to agree, but remember that in the western Papua area and Indonesian islands to the west of Irian, there is a lot of intermixing between Papuan and Indonesian ethno-types, same as on Luzon.

I tend to discount the Andamanese, because they are either Stone Age (and uncontacted) or were assimilated most of a century ago.

Tim Simmons · 20th December 2007, 08:45 PM

Hmmm, I wonder how far this mix actually goes. I know which side I am on.

VANDOO · 20th December 2007, 09:11 PM

MELANESIAN, AUSTRUALASIAN,POLYNESIAN,MENEHUNIE,NEGRITOS, AND THEN WHALERS AND EXPLORERS AND BEACH BUMS NO WONDER THERE IS QUITE A MIX.

I SUSPECT THE MAN IN QUESTION MAY BE FROM ONE OF THE MANY ISLANDS IN THE SOUTH PACIFIC BUT CAN NOT GUESS ANY CLOSER THAN THAT. HE SEEMS TO HAVE MORE ORIENTAL IN THE MIX THAN POLYNESIAN OR ABORIGINAL FROM NEW GUINEA OR AUSTRALIA. PERHAPS SOME OF THE ISLANDS NORTH EAST OF NEW GUINEA?
THE POLYNESIANS MOSTLY PRACTICED TATOOING THE AUSTRALIAN AND SOME NEW GUINEA ABORIGINALS PRACTICE THE SCARIFICATION. SCARIFICATION IS ALSO PRACTICED QUITE A BIT IN AFRICA. SORRY I CAN'T BE OF MORE HELP GOOD LUCK ON YOUR SEARCH.

Matt Splatt · 20th December 2007, 11:45 PM

I don't think facial features are a very reliable track to use as there is great variance amongst even isolated populations not to mention the the number of mixtures that are possible. What about that hilt at the bottom of the picture? Could we get an enlargement of the pommel? We might have some clues there. Any way just my two cents.

saint o'killers · 21st December 2007, 02:31 AM

not Negrito or Moro...the scars is a very good clue. Tribes from the north usually sport FAtoc or tribal tattoo patterns to prove they have taken heads.

20th December 2007, 02:59 PM	#1
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	I have a good friend, who in the 70's spent some time amongst the Asmat people of PNG. He has some spears he brought home that (to me ) look identical to this one. From his photos, this man looks to be from the same race, too. The only thing is that on my friends photos, the men on ceremonial occasions wore a curled shell ornament through their noses. these were taken out and I gather not worn at all times. Very good picture, BTW. Richard. PS, on looking at the picture with the arm-band, I recall similar arm-bands on my friends pictures. They were made with feathers, often in bright colours. I could ask him to send some pictures, as he does have complete sets of costumes and weaponry belonging to these people. Last edited by Pukka Bundook; 20th December 2007 at 03:11 PM.

20th December 2007, 05:30 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	In my opinion this fellow is nothing to do with Papuans. He looks very much a Negrito which is a rather catch all word. These two chaps in this picture taken in Malaya, could be the brothers of the spear holding man. The spear would fit the Malayan jungle people. As has been noted the spread of these people is in South East Asia/ Australasia. Papuans are Melanesians in the sience of these things quite different I believe. These links have some bearing on the matter. I would still say the chap in question is not Melanesian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Australoid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid A bit like calling Naga's Indian? Last edited by Tim Simmons; 20th December 2007 at 06:23 PM.

20th December 2007, 08:11 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Tim, I tend to agree, but remember that in the western Papua area and Indonesian islands to the west of Irian, there is a lot of intermixing between Papuan and Indonesian ethno-types, same as on Luzon. I tend to discount the Andamanese, because they are either Stone Age (and uncontacted) or were assimilated most of a century ago.

20th December 2007, 08:45 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Hmmm, I wonder how far this mix actually goes. I know which side I am on.

20th December 2007, 09:11 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MELANESIAN, AUSTRUALASIAN,POLYNESIAN,MENEHUNIE,NEGRITOS, AND THEN WHALERS AND EXPLORERS AND BEACH BUMS NO WONDER THERE IS QUITE A MIX. I SUSPECT THE MAN IN QUESTION MAY BE FROM ONE OF THE MANY ISLANDS IN THE SOUTH PACIFIC BUT CAN NOT GUESS ANY CLOSER THAN THAT. HE SEEMS TO HAVE MORE ORIENTAL IN THE MIX THAN POLYNESIAN OR ABORIGINAL FROM NEW GUINEA OR AUSTRALIA. PERHAPS SOME OF THE ISLANDS NORTH EAST OF NEW GUINEA? THE POLYNESIANS MOSTLY PRACTICED TATOOING THE AUSTRALIAN AND SOME NEW GUINEA ABORIGINALS PRACTICE THE SCARIFICATION. SCARIFICATION IS ALSO PRACTICED QUITE A BIT IN AFRICA. SORRY I CAN'T BE OF MORE HELP GOOD LUCK ON YOUR SEARCH.

20th December 2007, 11:45 PM	#6
Matt Splatt Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 31	I don't think facial features are a very reliable track to use as there is great variance amongst even isolated populations not to mention the the number of mixtures that are possible. What about that hilt at the bottom of the picture? Could we get an enlargement of the pommel? We might have some clues there. Any way just my two cents.

21st December 2007, 02:31 AM	#7
saint o'killers Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17	not Negrito or Moro...the scars is a very good clue. Tribes from the north usually sport FAtoc or tribal tattoo patterns to prove they have taken heads.