Mendhak Jogja and Solo

A. G. Maisey · 19th December 2007, 04:41 AM

Pak Boedhi, I am not proposing a linear descent to Surakarta style from Banten style.

What I am proposing is the stylistic proportion of the Majapahit blade transposed to the Surakarta blade. This does not mean that the Surakarta blade is the same in all respects to the Majapahit blade, but rather it uses the style of the Majapahit blade and fits it to the Surakarta blade.

Yes, there was a long and a close relationship between Surakarta and Sumenep, and there may have been some contributing influence to the Surakarta blade, but personally I cannot see it. The old Madura blades had a totally different pawakan to the Surakarta blade, and were usually quite upright with a rotan-like cross section; the blade tip after the last luk was long; the gandik was more often than not rather acutely angled; blumbangan proportion was quite different to that of the Surakarta blade, tending to squarish, and it was typically shallow and poorly defined; the kembang kacang was rather thin and spindly, and the gandik was typically short, low, thin and small; pamor was coarse and with a sand-like texture. However, they were well made blades for the purpose of weaponry. They were not works of art.

It is possible that one could get a similar feeling from an old Madura blade, and a Surakarta blade, but this different to physical appearance.

Blade proportion is anchored in the blumbangan, and the blumbangan in both the Majapahit blade and the Surakarta blade establish a related proportion. I am not using only the blumbangan as an indicator, rather I am saying that by using the same blumbangan, proportion is established which must follow the blumbangan, once that happens, the overall style follows.Actual physical size is not a consideration, as Blambangan, Banten and Bali blades---all inheritors of Majapahit keris tradition--- from the period immediately following Majapahit, are all of similar size to the Surakarta blade. Although we think of the Majapahit blade as a small blade, and although it is mentioned as a light blade in Centhini, let us not forget that Majapahit was already 400 years back in history when Centhini was written.In fact, the typical Majapahit blade is not a small blade, rather it is of medium size, but it is thin and light.

In one sense the Surakarta blade was "new" style, just as the HB blade was a "new" style, but where the HB style was influenced by Mataram, the Surakarta style was influenced by Majapahit.

Raden Usman Djogja · 20th December 2007, 10:03 AM

dear Kerislovers, especially Pak Budhi et Pak Alan,

I have been following this discussion. Remarkable!!! To make clearer of my understanding, would you please, if any, to upload keris pictures that you believe having tangguh: surakarta, djogjakarta, majapahit or old madura.
It is easier for me, perhaps for other colleagues too, while following some explanation about typical tanggug mentioned above there are opportunities to watch keris pictures which representing those tangguhs.

regrads,
OeS
some people can swim but are unable to dive, and, some others cannot swim then dived

David · 20th December 2007, 05:29 PM

I would also like to commend the participants in this thread, especially Alan, Boedhi and Ganja, for a most excellent and informative discussion. I think when we try this up (though there is always more!

) it should be added to our "Classic" thread sticky section.

Jussi M. · 13th September 2010, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

...should be added to our "Classic" thread sticky section.

Yes?

Thanks,

J.

Gustav · 14th September 2010, 10:40 AM

I miss very this level of discussion.

ferrylaki · 13th December 2011, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

I miss very this level of discussion.

Looks like they never visit no more.
I found them on facebook any way.

A. G. Maisey · 13th December 2011, 07:54 AM

Yeah Ferry --- friends will arise, friends will disappear --- to quote The Bard. No , not Will.

But there's a few of us still hanging around.

Actually the place where I've seen this sort of mendak most is in East Jawa, Surabaya, Malang. Cannot recall having seen it much on Central Jawa keris.

19th December 2007, 04:41 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Pak Boedhi, I am not proposing a linear descent to Surakarta style from Banten style. What I am proposing is the stylistic proportion of the Majapahit blade transposed to the Surakarta blade. This does not mean that the Surakarta blade is the same in all respects to the Majapahit blade, but rather it uses the style of the Majapahit blade and fits it to the Surakarta blade. Yes, there was a long and a close relationship between Surakarta and Sumenep, and there may have been some contributing influence to the Surakarta blade, but personally I cannot see it. The old Madura blades had a totally different pawakan to the Surakarta blade, and were usually quite upright with a rotan-like cross section; the blade tip after the last luk was long; the gandik was more often than not rather acutely angled; blumbangan proportion was quite different to that of the Surakarta blade, tending to squarish, and it was typically shallow and poorly defined; the kembang kacang was rather thin and spindly, and the gandik was typically short, low, thin and small; pamor was coarse and with a sand-like texture. However, they were well made blades for the purpose of weaponry. They were not works of art. It is possible that one could get a similar feeling from an old Madura blade, and a Surakarta blade, but this different to physical appearance. Blade proportion is anchored in the blumbangan, and the blumbangan in both the Majapahit blade and the Surakarta blade establish a related proportion. I am not using only the blumbangan as an indicator, rather I am saying that by using the same blumbangan, proportion is established which must follow the blumbangan, once that happens, the overall style follows.Actual physical size is not a consideration, as Blambangan, Banten and Bali blades---all inheritors of Majapahit keris tradition--- from the period immediately following Majapahit, are all of similar size to the Surakarta blade. Although we think of the Majapahit blade as a small blade, and although it is mentioned as a light blade in Centhini, let us not forget that Majapahit was already 400 years back in history when Centhini was written.In fact, the typical Majapahit blade is not a small blade, rather it is of medium size, but it is thin and light. In one sense the Surakarta blade was "new" style, just as the HB blade was a "new" style, but where the HB style was influenced by Mataram, the Surakarta style was influenced by Majapahit.

20th December 2007, 10:03 AM	#2
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	dear Kerislovers, especially Pak Budhi et Pak Alan, I have been following this discussion. Remarkable!!! To make clearer of my understanding, would you please, if any, to upload keris pictures that you believe having tangguh: surakarta, djogjakarta, majapahit or old madura. It is easier for me, perhaps for other colleagues too, while following some explanation about typical tanggug mentioned above there are opportunities to watch keris pictures which representing those tangguhs. regrads, OeS some people can swim but are unable to dive, and, some others cannot swim then dived

20th December 2007, 05:29 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I would also like to commend the participants in this thread, especially Alan, Boedhi and Ganja, for a most excellent and informative discussion. I think when we try this up (though there is always more! ) it should be added to our "Classic" thread sticky section.

14th September 2010, 10:40 AM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	I miss very this level of discussion.

13th December 2011, 07:54 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yeah Ferry --- friends will arise, friends will disappear --- to quote The Bard. No , not Will. But there's a few of us still hanging around. Actually the place where I've seen this sort of mendak most is in East Jawa, Surabaya, Malang. Cannot recall having seen it much on Central Jawa keris.