Damascene and Pamor

BluErf · 15th December 2007, 08:05 AM

I have a specific question - pls see attached pic. How does the empu get the black steel between the silver wengkon and the main silver pamor?

Also, the black steel is of a different tone from the steel at the cutting edge. The black spots in the middle of the pamor are of that different black steel. Why is that so?

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2007, 10:33 AM

To be certain about why this occurred it would be necessary to examine the blade, rather than a picture, but the highest probability is that this is evidence of less than careful work.

BluErf · 15th December 2007, 03:59 PM

Yes, that could be so. This blade was collected in Lombok and attributed to Sumbawa, where kerises are not subject to warangan (hence pamor is not normally shown). Perhaps the smiths there are less careful in this aspect compared to places where warangan is used. Here's the rest of the keris.

Marcokeris · 15th December 2007, 05:05 PM

Beautiful!

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2007, 10:00 PM

What method has been used to fix the pesi?

BluErf · 16th December 2007, 01:02 AM

Hi Alan, like clarify that if your "fix the pesi" meant how the ganja was secured onto the pesi?

The ganja is fitted over an enlarged oval portion at the base of the pesi, without the use of any metal wedges. No gaps are visible between the ganja and the pesi.

A. G. Maisey · 16th December 2007, 01:15 AM

Senior moment mate, senior moment. What I should have asked was "what method has been used to fix the gonjo to the pesi".

So, the base of the pesi was left larger, and that base was punched to expand it , giving a tight fit to the pesi. Is this correct? No adhesives anywhere? Check the gap between the gonjo and the blade base.

The garap in this blade is pretty good, and it does not seem at all similar in any way with the garap of blades that I have seen that definitely did come from Sumbawa.I could maybe be convinced it was Lombok---I'd need a bit of pushing, but maybe I'd wear Lombok. But Sumbawa? Naw---don't think so.

15th December 2007, 08:05 AM	#1
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I have a specific question - pls see attached pic. How does the empu get the black steel between the silver wengkon and the main silver pamor? Also, the black steel is of a different tone from the steel at the cutting edge. The black spots in the middle of the pamor are of that different black steel. Why is that so? Attached Images

15th December 2007, 03:59 PM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Yes, that could be so. This blade was collected in Lombok and attributed to Sumbawa, where kerises are not subject to warangan (hence pamor is not normally shown). Perhaps the smiths there are less careful in this aspect compared to places where warangan is used. Here's the rest of the keris. Attached Images

16th December 2007, 01:02 AM	#6
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Alan, like clarify that if your "fix the pesi" meant how the ganja was secured onto the pesi? The ganja is fitted over an enlarged oval portion at the base of the pesi, without the use of any metal wedges. No gaps are visible between the ganja and the pesi. Last edited by BluErf; 16th December 2007 at 01:39 AM. Reason: corrected 'what' to 'that'

15th December 2007, 10:33 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	To be certain about why this occurred it would be necessary to examine the blade, rather than a picture, but the highest probability is that this is evidence of less than careful work.

15th December 2007, 05:05 PM	#4
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Beautiful!

15th December 2007, 10:00 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	What method has been used to fix the pesi?

16th December 2007, 01:15 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Senior moment mate, senior moment. What I should have asked was "what method has been used to fix the gonjo to the pesi". So, the base of the pesi was left larger, and that base was punched to expand it , giving a tight fit to the pesi. Is this correct? No adhesives anywhere? Check the gap between the gonjo and the blade base. The garap in this blade is pretty good, and it does not seem at all similar in any way with the garap of blades that I have seen that definitely did come from Sumbawa.I could maybe be convinced it was Lombok---I'd need a bit of pushing, but maybe I'd wear Lombok. But Sumbawa? Naw---don't think so.