Mandara mountains tabouka

Tim Simmons · 14th December 2007, 06:00 PM

Thanks for the excellent replays.

David I did not want to suggest that smelting or iron work was rare. I was just trying to suggest and I think successfully the difficulties of working this locally smelted iron of a standard one would not come across today. Also smithing techniques that may be of an artistic nature not often encountered.

I have only tested the sword by bending from end to end to stress the middle more or less were the weld is. This is not scientific I know but I can say I have done this with my heart thumping with fear. I have taken this bending to the point where if I were to bend it out of shape it would happen about 1-2 inches below the weld and after all I do not want to damage it. It almost seems as if the weld is actually harder? stronger?
I am not just saying this for affect, it flexed more than I expected better than other weapons I have not just from Africa. So I cannot see the weld as an after thought.

An overall observation of the sword and the scabbard in particular with a chape made of an old boot. Are surely indicators of an origin far from wealth and cosmopolitan tastes. I feel sure by the fact that it is not trade steel, this has to be made at the turn of the 19th century certainly no latter than 1930. I could not say when trade steel replaced local smelting but I would have thought 1930 was very late in this matter. Gas could be a possibility but would appear too urbane? I need to show more day light pictures of the whole thing again.
Thanks for all your replays.

Tim Simmons · 14th December 2007, 07:52 PM

This could put the tin hat on it. Life's a gas

possibly.

Seriously one does not always understand the pace of change. People live in communities without education, electricity, sanitation and a medieval mindset but have cell phones.
http://www.weldingmag.com/323/Issue/...se/45962/Issue

I will sort out some nice pics over the weekend

Tim Simmons · 14th December 2007, 08:44 PM

The weld factor probably put people off. I am now even more sure I got a bargain.

Tim Simmons · 15th December 2007, 10:50 AM

Some daylight pictures. The midrib is 7mm at the forte and is an average of 6mm to the tip. So it is very business like and one heck of a weld which I imagine has been work in the forging, that may be why there are areas looking like hammer spread thin metal.

Learning all the time. Thanks.

katana · 15th December 2007, 03:54 PM

Reading some more about the Mandara Hills I have found that many tribes relocated there due to the iron ore deposits. Either as smelters or smiths, almost a 'Solingen of Africa', although weapons were not their 'exclusive' wares.

Because of the numbers of differing tribes that inhabited the Mandara Hills, that smelted the iron and 'worked' the metal. Fortifications were built as the population increased. The smelting technology used was more advanced than many other areas of Africa. I get the impression that the smelted iron was of good quality and 'in demand' from neighbouring tribes whom would either trade for it ......or 'raid' for it. Also, as mentioned before, Mandara was often 'plundered' for slaves.

A 'slideshow' of some excavated fortifications, use the 'top' arrow to see the next pic.....and so on.

http://www.mandaras.info/StrongholdsNCameroon/fv1.htm

Regards David

As a footnote ... AFAIK weapon forms in Africa have been said to have 'spread' via trade routes and conflict. It is quite likely that in an area such as Mandara the 'intermingling' of tribal smiths also created an 'intermingling' of ideas and weapon forms, as well.

Tim Simmons · 15th December 2007, 04:34 PM

David what marvelous research thank you.
I can see how even in the latter part of the 19th century a region with centres like this would have smiths with gas equipment. Somehow one thinks of these things stuck in aspic, but why should they not want to keep up with technology in there way. It is amazing thinking of a trade caravan laden with gas bottles, why not!

Robert · 15th December 2007, 04:51 PM

They would have most likely carried carbide instead of gas bottles. The early acetylene tanks worked like a miners lamp. They would drip water on carbide pellets to produce the acetylene gas needed for welding.

Robert

14th December 2007, 06:00 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Thanks for the excellent replays. David I did not want to suggest that smelting or iron work was rare. I was just trying to suggest and I think successfully the difficulties of working this locally smelted iron of a standard one would not come across today. Also smithing techniques that may be of an artistic nature not often encountered. I have only tested the sword by bending from end to end to stress the middle more or less were the weld is. This is not scientific I know but I can say I have done this with my heart thumping with fear. I have taken this bending to the point where if I were to bend it out of shape it would happen about 1-2 inches below the weld and after all I do not want to damage it. It almost seems as if the weld is actually harder? stronger? I am not just saying this for affect, it flexed more than I expected better than other weapons I have not just from Africa. So I cannot see the weld as an after thought. An overall observation of the sword and the scabbard in particular with a chape made of an old boot. Are surely indicators of an origin far from wealth and cosmopolitan tastes. I feel sure by the fact that it is not trade steel, this has to be made at the turn of the 19th century certainly no latter than 1930. I could not say when trade steel replaced local smelting but I would have thought 1930 was very late in this matter. Gas could be a possibility but would appear too urbane? I need to show more day light pictures of the whole thing again. Thanks for all your replays. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 14th December 2007 at 06:45 PM.

15th December 2007, 10:50 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Some daylight pictures. The midrib is 7mm at the forte and is an average of 6mm to the tip. So it is very business like and one heck of a weld which I imagine has been work in the forging, that may be why there are areas looking like hammer spread thin metal. Learning all the time. Thanks. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 15th December 2007 at 11:10 AM.

15th December 2007, 03:54 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Reading some more about the Mandara Hills I have found that many tribes relocated there due to the iron ore deposits. Either as smelters or smiths, almost a 'Solingen of Africa', although weapons were not their 'exclusive' wares. Because of the numbers of differing tribes that inhabited the Mandara Hills, that smelted the iron and 'worked' the metal. Fortifications were built as the population increased. The smelting technology used was more advanced than many other areas of Africa. I get the impression that the smelted iron was of good quality and 'in demand' from neighbouring tribes whom would either trade for it ......or 'raid' for it. Also, as mentioned before, Mandara was often 'plundered' for slaves. A 'slideshow' of some excavated fortifications, use the 'top' arrow to see the next pic.....and so on. http://www.mandaras.info/StrongholdsNCameroon/fv1.htm Regards David As a footnote ... AFAIK weapon forms in Africa have been said to have 'spread' via trade routes and conflict. It is quite likely that in an area such as Mandara the 'intermingling' of tribal smiths also created an 'intermingling' of ideas and weapon forms, as well. Last edited by katana; 15th December 2007 at 04:06 PM.

14th December 2007, 07:52 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	This could put the tin hat on it. Life's a gas possibly. Seriously one does not always understand the pace of change. People live in communities without education, electricity, sanitation and a medieval mindset but have cell phones. http://www.weldingmag.com/323/Issue/...se/45962/Issue I will sort out some nice pics over the weekend

14th December 2007, 08:44 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	The weld factor probably put people off. I am now even more sure I got a bargain.

15th December 2007, 04:34 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	David what marvelous research thank you. I can see how even in the latter part of the 19th century a region with centres like this would have smiths with gas equipment. Somehow one thinks of these things stuck in aspic, but why should they not want to keep up with technology in there way. It is amazing thinking of a trade caravan laden with gas bottles, why not!

15th December 2007, 04:51 PM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	They would have most likely carried carbide instead of gas bottles. The early acetylene tanks worked like a miners lamp. They would drip water on carbide pellets to produce the acetylene gas needed for welding. Robert