Tulwar Inscription

Jim McDougall · 13th December 2007, 12:55 AM

I agree Spiral, that varying degree of literacy and skill would certainly be a factor in the structure of the lettering, and I'm inclined to agree as well that this script seems more like the Dari you note. It is interesting that Dari was from what I understand a Persian based court language spoken in Afghanistan, and this blade seems to be of Persian form. In Egerton (#755, plate XV) there is a shamshir illustrated with remarkably similar blade, including a linear motif which cannot be clearly seen, but since it is a drawn illustration may well be the floral motif seen on Norman's blade. The widened yelman is also present. The shamshir is captioned as from Lahore, but of course since those of prominence in Indian courts favored Persian blades, this may be indicative of a blade form for Afghans in similar station.

It seems these characters in the inscription may be initials or abbreviated wording, name? I still feel the 'cintamani' symbol is intended with the marking to allude to Timurud ancestry, in the manner that certain symbols or marks might accompany someones personal autograph or marking.

Thanks very much Spiral for setting the course on this. Always a great learning experience!

All the best,
Jim

spiral · 13th December 2007, 09:23 AM

Just lucky I had seen & looked up Dari script.

Yes the various inscriptions do apper to be abbeviated to me as well.

Thankyou Jim Re. the 'cintamani' symbol, {I get a bit single tracked sometimes, when its late!} just done a little research about it & it appears it origin is Buddhist symbolism originaly? [so must have a very old history in Afghanistan. Unless of course Buddhism adopted it from the Afghans?} one of the things I came across this...

"Cintamani are wish-granting jewels and additionally represent wisdom. When depicted in sets of 3, they represent the body, speech and mind of Buddha such as the practitioner may possess. Cintamani are also referred to as the “Thinking Jewel” and symbolize the importance of teaching and as well as the enlightened mind. Pictured here are 6 flaming jewels. 15 flaming jewels are also sometimes seen."

Thought it was fascinating to see once again the merging of these symbols, regions & weapons. Even if the meanings & interpritations get altered by time & place.

Spiral

Jim McDougall · 13th December 2007, 05:21 PM

Thanks very much Spiral, and your points on the Buddhist ancestry of the symbolism of you cintamani are of course quite well placed. I couldn't agree more on the confluence of religions, traditions and cultures coming together as often seen on the weapons, which reflect these influences. The weapons are indeed in effect 'tapestries of culture' that often subtly carry the histories of the regions in which they are used, and the very reason why ethnographic weapons research is so fascinating.

All very best regards,
Jim

Norman McCormick · 13th December 2007, 08:16 PM

Hello,
Many thanks for your interest and and your time in trying to get an answer to this mystery. Your findings are really interesting and I had no idea the lineage of the sword and decipherment of the inscription would be such a complex affair. I am hoping, of course, that there will be an answer at the end of this particular rainbow but, who knows, nothing is ever as simple as it first appears. Looking forward to further developments.
Regards,
Norman.

13th December 2007, 12:55 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	I agree Spiral, that varying degree of literacy and skill would certainly be a factor in the structure of the lettering, and I'm inclined to agree as well that this script seems more like the Dari you note. It is interesting that Dari was from what I understand a Persian based court language spoken in Afghanistan, and this blade seems to be of Persian form. In Egerton (#755, plate XV) there is a shamshir illustrated with remarkably similar blade, including a linear motif which cannot be clearly seen, but since it is a drawn illustration may well be the floral motif seen on Norman's blade. The widened yelman is also present. The shamshir is captioned as from Lahore, but of course since those of prominence in Indian courts favored Persian blades, this may be indicative of a blade form for Afghans in similar station. It seems these characters in the inscription may be initials or abbreviated wording, name? I still feel the 'cintamani' symbol is intended with the marking to allude to Timurud ancestry, in the manner that certain symbols or marks might accompany someones personal autograph or marking. Thanks very much Spiral for setting the course on this. Always a great learning experience! All the best, Jim

13th December 2007, 09:23 AM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Just lucky I had seen & looked up Dari script. Yes the various inscriptions do apper to be abbeviated to me as well. Thankyou Jim Re. the 'cintamani' symbol, {I get a bit single tracked sometimes, when its late!} just done a little research about it & it appears it origin is Buddhist symbolism originaly? [so must have a very old history in Afghanistan. Unless of course Buddhism adopted it from the Afghans?} one of the things I came across this... "Cintamani are wish-granting jewels and additionally represent wisdom. When depicted in sets of 3, they represent the body, speech and mind of Buddha such as the practitioner may possess. Cintamani are also referred to as the “Thinking Jewel” and symbolize the importance of teaching and as well as the enlightened mind. Pictured here are 6 flaming jewels. 15 flaming jewels are also sometimes seen." Thought it was fascinating to see once again the merging of these symbols, regions & weapons. Even if the meanings & interpritations get altered by time & place. Spiral

13th December 2007, 05:21 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Thanks very much Spiral, and your points on the Buddhist ancestry of the symbolism of you cintamani are of course quite well placed. I couldn't agree more on the confluence of religions, traditions and cultures coming together as often seen on the weapons, which reflect these influences. The weapons are indeed in effect 'tapestries of culture' that often subtly carry the histories of the regions in which they are used, and the very reason why ethnographic weapons research is so fascinating. All very best regards, Jim

13th December 2007, 08:16 PM	#4
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hello, Many thanks for your interest and and your time in trying to get an answer to this mystery. Your findings are really interesting and I had no idea the lineage of the sword and decipherment of the inscription would be such a complex affair. I am hoping, of course, that there will be an answer at the end of this particular rainbow but, who knows, nothing is ever as simple as it first appears. Looking forward to further developments. Regards, Norman.