A worthy kattar for comment

Montino Bourbon · 17th March 2005, 04:48 AM

Just a thought; what would happen if the ingot was allowed to cool in a strong magnetic field? Would the dendrites align with the field?

Something for the experimenters to try!

Ann Feuerbach · 17th March 2005, 02:49 PM

Interesting question. However I do not think so, if you look at castings, the dendrites grow from the outside inward. You get a chill layer (sorry I forget the correct term, need second cup of coffee)

Gt Obach · 22nd March 2005, 06:37 AM

hi all
this is an interesting post..
- alloy has lots to do with the coloring but so does the etch...
- even the quenched steel will show up darker..

for awhile the blades i've made... sometimes have a grey hue all the way to a bluish color.. but yet I alter my formula very little.... except for the occasional frankenwootz ..

personally, i wouldn't alter museum pieces with nital... but for my steel, it brings out an accurate picture ... example:
http://dark.unitz.ca/~gthomas/myweb/p1.JPG

the rest of the post is on primal bout half way down the post
http://p222.ezboard.com/fprimalfires...icID=156.topic

recently.... Jeff Pringle posted a wootz knife he made..... and used an iron sulphate etch..... he said he had to add sulphuric acid to it and it worked well... but it was different than my fav (nital)
here... take a peek
http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=27383

hope that helps a little
Greg

Ann Feuerbach · 23rd March 2005, 03:37 PM

Yes, nital and ferric chloride will give a different etch. Other factors which need to be considered are: if you want to darken the globular cementite or the matrix, which basically can be ferrite or pearlite. Sort of a negative or positive effect, dpending which one you want to darken. I have also heard the Worstershire sauce works well. And yes, any additional trace elements can also effect the pattern.
So I have been told.. when they re etch Japanese blades, they first do an elemental map of the blade to see what elements are where (phosphorus, etc). Then they choose the etchant to bring out the best pattern.

Gt Obach · 23rd March 2005, 04:32 PM

Worstershire sauce... .. that is something I haven't tried.. but I will surely give it a go
- i've tried Alum with abit of acid... but I could never get it to work right... it does make your hands a nice purple

I aggree with all my heart that the elemental make up does funny things to the etch... even two blades from the same ingot can take on subtle hue differences pending how they were forged and quenched

in most of my blades... the etched matrix is tempered martensite.... even the swords i've made were in this state too.. but this summer i'll have to experiment with pearlite
-
- in plain damascus... even vinnegar will work well... but I find it etches better if it used a couple times.... therefore its' more of acetic acid and an iron salt...
--- think those 2 components are the key.... the acid and the iron salt

thank you
Greg

francantolin · 20th May 2018, 08:47 AM

Shazaam !

A really old post comes back !

( I was looking for informations about etching blades on kattar daggers and found this post ... )
I have an old all rusty kattar with perhaps wootz/damas blade and with little gold koftgari remains on the handle.

I wonder if an vinegar-acetic acid bath will destroy the koftgari...
Any advice for clean it in the best way ?

Thank you

Jens Nordlunde · 20th May 2018, 03:19 PM

Funny to see such an old thread again.

francantolin, I would clean the blade and etch it, to see if it shown any pattern, and then clean the side guards and the cross bar carefully, not to remove the remaining gold.

Montino, I hope you take good care of your nice katar, and I was surprised to see, that no one of us told you from where it is.
Hendley in his book Damascene Work in India, plate 25 writes that it is 'false damascening in gold from Kotah.
To me it looks like a Deccani kater decorated in the north.

17th March 2005, 04:48 AM	#1
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	magnetically-influenced wootz Just a thought; what would happen if the ingot was allowed to cool in a strong magnetic field? Would the dendrites align with the field? Something for the experimenters to try!

20th May 2018, 08:47 AM	#6
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Shazaam ! A really old post comes back ! ( I was looking for informations about etching blades on kattar daggers and found this post ... ) I have an old all rusty kattar with perhaps wootz/damas blade and with little gold koftgari remains on the handle. I wonder if an vinegar-acetic acid bath will destroy the koftgari... Any advice for clean it in the best way ? Thank you Attached Images

17th March 2005, 02:49 PM	#2
Ann Feuerbach Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 133	Interesting question. However I do not think so, if you look at castings, the dendrites grow from the outside inward. You get a chill layer (sorry I forget the correct term, need second cup of coffee)

22nd March 2005, 06:37 AM	#3
Gt Obach Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 116	hi all this is an interesting post.. - alloy has lots to do with the coloring but so does the etch... - even the quenched steel will show up darker.. for awhile the blades i've made... sometimes have a grey hue all the way to a bluish color.. but yet I alter my formula very little.... except for the occasional frankenwootz .. personally, i wouldn't alter museum pieces with nital... but for my steel, it brings out an accurate picture ... example: http://dark.unitz.ca/~gthomas/myweb/p1.JPG the rest of the post is on primal bout half way down the post http://p222.ezboard.com/fprimalfires...icID=156.topic recently.... Jeff Pringle posted a wootz knife he made..... and used an iron sulphate etch..... he said he had to add sulphuric acid to it and it worked well... but it was different than my fav (nital) here... take a peek http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=27383 hope that helps a little Greg

23rd March 2005, 03:37 PM	#4
Ann Feuerbach Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 133	Yes, nital and ferric chloride will give a different etch. Other factors which need to be considered are: if you want to darken the globular cementite or the matrix, which basically can be ferrite or pearlite. Sort of a negative or positive effect, dpending which one you want to darken. I have also heard the Worstershire sauce works well. And yes, any additional trace elements can also effect the pattern. So I have been told.. when they re etch Japanese blades, they first do an elemental map of the blade to see what elements are where (phosphorus, etc). Then they choose the etchant to bring out the best pattern.

23rd March 2005, 04:32 PM	#5
Gt Obach Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 116	Worstershire sauce... .. that is something I haven't tried.. but I will surely give it a go - i've tried Alum with abit of acid... but I could never get it to work right... it does make your hands a nice purple I aggree with all my heart that the elemental make up does funny things to the etch... even two blades from the same ingot can take on subtle hue differences pending how they were forged and quenched in most of my blades... the etched matrix is tempered martensite.... even the swords i've made were in this state too.. but this summer i'll have to experiment with pearlite - - in plain damascus... even vinnegar will work well... but I find it etches better if it used a couple times.... therefore its' more of acetic acid and an iron salt... --- think those 2 components are the key.... the acid and the iron salt thank you Greg

20th May 2018, 03:19 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Funny to see such an old thread again. francantolin, I would clean the blade and etch it, to see if it shown any pattern, and then clean the side guards and the cross bar carefully, not to remove the remaining gold. Montino, I hope you take good care of your nice katar, and I was surprised to see, that no one of us told you from where it is. Hendley in his book Damascene Work in India, plate 25 writes that it is 'false damascening in gold from Kotah. To me it looks like a Deccani kater decorated in the north.