Figural Dagger - Esmeralda?

katana · 4th December 2007, 07:01 PM

Hi,
I agree that sometimes 'things are what they are' and that others can create meaning to an object that has none. However, I do not assume this to be so for any object, I try to keep an 'opened mind'...'collect' possible facts first and then take an educated 'guess' from that info. The possible symbolism, could be relavent, this may indeed be a themed dagger in conception.....but later owners may have drawn their own conclusions and could have been used as a so called 'satanic dagger' ...

But there are 'anomalies' with this dagger's hilt and scabbard which could be just 'mistakes' or omissions....or could have some meaning.

I agree, (as I said before) that Esmeralda is looking 'lovingly' at her pet goat. Her stance, the goats positioning etc supports this.Yet her eyes are 'lifeless' or closed, the goat on the other hand has detail to its eyes

You could argue that the classical statues of Greece also have this 'look', but originally the eyes were painted and due to time the paint has eroded.

Sorry to 'labour' this point but....I cannot understand why the craftsman whom produced the scabbard put the tiles 'right way up' to the viewer but 'upside' down to the orientation of the spire

A very strange mistake......if indeed this was a mistake.

Spiral, have you found any info on the blade?

Regards David

spiral · 4th December 2007, 07:32 PM

I agree Katana figural daggers may have been made for varied purposes or used as such later in thier life. Same as many knives.

Some clearly have Satanic themes, others may or may not & some clearly dont. I have seen no evidence of these bieng ritual knives but dont say its impossible.

Many organsations , groups & indivduals, like particular knives for particular purposes after all.

The blade style is typical of French figural knives of the period, some of which have "satanic" themes & some of which dont. It does appear to have been cut out of an older blade though. This is also common of those with Satanic themes that often used blades from Napoleans Mamuluke daggers from about 1805? I seem to recall? Whether its common in French figural knives without "satanic" themes I dont know. But I rather suspect many of these were made by the same workshops of sculpters & old blades were available & perhaps saved employing a cutler with a forge? They were just, cut ground, drilled etc.

But that is just my conjecture.

Indeed Tim, I did enjoy that one while it was in my company.

Intrestingly I noticed "non knife" people particularily women found it fascinating. But then I guess most of them were artists.

Spiral

Tim Simmons · 4th December 2007, 07:37 PM

You can keep the knife I will stick with the fantasy

spiral · 4th December 2007, 07:43 PM

Reality is more fun though Tim.

spiral

Tim Simmons · 4th December 2007, 07:50 PM

Do not try and kid me you have one at home.

spiral · 4th December 2007, 07:57 PM

I wasnt Tim,

Not for the last 3 years, I do still luckily have those who visit though.

Spiral

Tim Simmons · 4th December 2007, 08:01 PM

You are a lucky B I'll tell your wife if you have one. Perhaps she knows

4th December 2007, 07:01 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi, I agree that sometimes 'things are what they are' and that others can create meaning to an object that has none. However, I do not assume this to be so for any object, I try to keep an 'opened mind'...'collect' possible facts first and then take an educated 'guess' from that info. The possible symbolism, could be relavent, this may indeed be a themed dagger in conception.....but later owners may have drawn their own conclusions and could have been used as a so called 'satanic dagger' ... But there are 'anomalies' with this dagger's hilt and scabbard which could be just 'mistakes' or omissions....or could have some meaning. I agree, (as I said before) that Esmeralda is looking 'lovingly' at her pet goat. Her stance, the goats positioning etc supports this.Yet her eyes are 'lifeless' or closed, the goat on the other hand has detail to its eyes You could argue that the classical statues of Greece also have this 'look', but originally the eyes were painted and due to time the paint has eroded. Sorry to 'labour' this point but....I cannot understand why the craftsman whom produced the scabbard put the tiles 'right way up' to the viewer but 'upside' down to the orientation of the spire A very strange mistake......if indeed this was a mistake. Spiral, have you found any info on the blade? Regards David

4th December 2007, 07:32 PM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I agree Katana figural daggers may have been made for varied purposes or used as such later in thier life. Same as many knives. Some clearly have Satanic themes, others may or may not & some clearly dont. I have seen no evidence of these bieng ritual knives but dont say its impossible. Many organsations , groups & indivduals, like particular knives for particular purposes after all. The blade style is typical of French figural knives of the period, some of which have "satanic" themes & some of which dont. It does appear to have been cut out of an older blade though. This is also common of those with Satanic themes that often used blades from Napoleans Mamuluke daggers from about 1805? I seem to recall? Whether its common in French figural knives without "satanic" themes I dont know. But I rather suspect many of these were made by the same workshops of sculpters & old blades were available & perhaps saved employing a cutler with a forge? They were just, cut ground, drilled etc. But that is just my conjecture. Indeed Tim, I did enjoy that one while it was in my company. Intrestingly I noticed "non knife" people particularily women found it fascinating. But then I guess most of them were artists. Spiral

4th December 2007, 07:37 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,890	You can keep the knife I will stick with the fantasy

4th December 2007, 07:43 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Reality is more fun though Tim. spiral

4th December 2007, 07:50 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,890	Do not try and kid me you have one at home.

4th December 2007, 07:57 PM	#6
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I wasnt Tim, Not for the last 3 years, I do still luckily have those who visit though. Spiral

4th December 2007, 08:01 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,890	You are a lucky B I'll tell your wife if you have one. Perhaps she knows