Mendhak Jogja and Solo

ganjawulung · 30th November 2007, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boedhi Adhitya

According to my understanding, the most notable different features of Jogja's and Solo's mendhak is their 'ungkat-ungkatan'. Solo's has a thin, skinny ungkat-ungkat, and Jogja's has a cone-shape ungkat-ungkat.

As a picture worth more than a thousand words, I attach some pictures which had been posted before, with some comments added. I apologize for 'copyright infringement', if any, and also to Mas Ganjawulung.

To Mas Ferry, you could find a fair/good new mendhak easily, usually the better one come in silver and yakut, but the old, good one (I mean, the better then the best new one could available), unfortunately, quite rare today.

Finding the right 'proportion' on ukiran (handle), mendhak, wrangka and pendhok is very tricky. Size, shapes, color, textures and balance/harmony have come into account. You must have several good stock of handles, mendhaks and pendhoks to make proper adjustment. And the utmost is, you must have 'the feeling' to judge the proper harmony. It is the most important part, and unfortunately, that money can't buy. It is also not easy to learn.

Many Thanks, to your correction Mas Boedhy. As a "priyantun Jogja" of course you are reliable to determine which is the proper Jogja style, or which is not proper. This could happened, because I am Solonese but a fans of Jogjanese style. Jogja style is admirable...

I would post the other (Jogja) mendhaks. Do you think the second one is another style of Jogja kendhit?

Ganjawulung

Boedhi Adhitya · 30th November 2007, 05:01 AM

Yes, Mas Ganja. All the mendhak's pictures on your latest post are Jogjas, IMHO. The one with gems is kendhit. It use filigree in spite of ordinary meniran/beads. Just a variation, I think. Kendhit means belt, belted with gems, in this case, and the one with metal ball called mendhak lugas. Lugas simply means 'plain'. The kendhit is not necessarily better than lugas. With a good balance and execution, the lugas frequently beat the ordinary kendhit, in term of beauty, not money, of course

Please bear in mind, while the 'lugas' and 'kendhit' are the proper terminology to define the mendhak's type especially in the court's circle, it might be unrecognized by some local seller. You might use 'polos' instead of 'lugas' (means the same, 'plain') or with/without mata (='eyes', the gems). 'robyong' is recognizable for three tier mendhak (might also in use with dhapurs, ex. sinom robyong).

Marcokeris · 1st December 2007, 11:55 AM

Ganja, Adhitya
Thanks a lot for nice pictures and great explanation

ganjawulung · 5th December 2007, 09:08 AM

Dear All,

Some mendhak "robyong" Solonese type (?) and "selut" of Banyumasan type. Also combination on the robyong mendhak and Banyumas selut.. Banyumas is a vassal of Solo Kingdom in the past, although Banyumas located far away from Solo -- in the western part of South-Central Java...

The plastic tool box -- that you may find easily in supermarkets -- might be used as a "keris spareparts" box. Don't throw away the old and broken selut. It might be usefull someday, to repair your broken mendhak...

Ganjawulung

Raden Usman Djogja · 5th December 2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear All,

Banyumas is a vassal of Solo Kingdom in the past, although Banyumas located far away from Solo -- in the western part of South-Central Java...

Ganjawulung

Dear Gonjo,

Hope you can enlighten me. After the equal division of Mataram kingdom (Paliyan Nagari), Mataram became Surokarto and Jogjakarto that its border cutting of Prambanan.

Furthermore, there were several Nagari Gungs (the extended territories), perhaps as you said "vassals", such as Banyumas, Pasir, Ponorogo, Pacitan, Ngawi, Madiun. I got some stories that Nagari Gung was also divided equally. For example Pasir was divided into two regions. As a consequence, in Pasir there were both Surokarto and Jogjokarto influences depended in which part of Pasir. It is a story without supported by written evidence. So, if you have other story especially "history" about the status of Mataram's vassals after the division of Kingdom, please share in this forum.

warm salam,
Usman

Michel · 9th December 2007, 05:56 PM

gentlemen,
I like indeed your discussion about mendak, about keris, about the history of Indonesia, etc. but you use often words in Indonesian that I do not understand. As I have purchased an excellent English-Indonesian dictionary (as recommended by my good adviser from Australia who speaks both languages) I have tried to look for these words and other from the book "Keris Jawa antara Mystic dan nalar". To my great frustration, I have found none ! Assuming that I am not a complete nut, (past history is no proof for the present) I must do something wrong when I look at words in my dictionary. I suspect it may come from the prefix and suffix used in Indonesian. or from the spelling as it appears that Indonesian word may be spelled variously. (i.e. mendak, mendhak). Can you tel me how can I identify the base form of the word ? ( in particular since bases undergo apparently modifications when certain prefixes are attached.)
Please do not answer the easy way by telling me : learn Indonesian !
I have tried some 10 years ago with Bahasa Malaysia and already at that time it was not a success !
Thanks for any clue
Michel

ganjawulung · 10th December 2007, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michel

gentlemen,
I like indeed your discussion about mendak, about keris, about the history of Indonesia, etc. but you use often words in Indonesian that I do not understand. As I have purchased an excellent English-Indonesian dictionary (as recommended by my good adviser from Australia who speaks both languages) I have tried to look for these words and other from the book "Keris Jawa antara Mystic dan nalar". To my great frustration, I have found none ! Assuming that I am not a complete nut, (past history is no proof for the present) I must do something wrong when I look at words in my dictionary. I suspect it may come from the prefix and suffix used in Indonesian. or from the spelling as it appears that Indonesian word may be spelled variously. (i.e. mendak, mendhak). Can you tel me how can I identify the base form of the word ? ( in particular since bases undergo apparently modifications when certain prefixes are attached.)
Please do not answer the easy way by telling me : learn Indonesian !
I have tried some 10 years ago with Bahasa Malaysia and already at that time it was not a success !
Thanks for any clue
Michel

Dear Michel,

I understand your difficulty. Especially in understanding the keris term that sometimes came from javanese words, and many times from old javanese for instance Kawi, or even Sanskrit.

Even the word "mendhak" in keris term, is different with "mendhak" -- or mendak -- in the general javanese meaning. Mendhak (dha is just to differ from "da" (soft spelling. Because in javanese, if you spell "deder" with hard "dha" like "dhedher", then the meaning is very far different) in keris term mean like "keris ring" below the ganja, keris accesories. But, mendhak in general javanese term (you may write to as mendak, it depends), may means "every". And may means too as "to low down -- for instance, in a move from upper step to lower step."

Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malaysia, came from the same root of Malay. But sometimes with different spelling and even the vocab words came from the different origin. Malaysian, used to add the vocabulary from English words. But Indonesian, more from Dutch word and many of them from Javanese, or old javanese words. So complicated not only for foreigners, but even for Indonesians theirselves. As you know, Javanese language is only one of hundreds slangs in Indonesian archipelago.

As you know too, Indonesia spreads in more than 33.000 islands, and in three different time-zones (West Indonesian Time, Central Indonesian Time and Eastern Indonesian Time). The javanese people, spreads almost all over the archipelago, and so dominant in the Indonesian culture. I hope this will help you, a little bit...

Ganjawulung

Boedhi Adhitya · 10th December 2007, 01:44 AM

Dear Michel,

I'm terribly sorry to hear that you became frustrated on learning Indonesian, and keris terminology, specifically. Keris's terminology, especially Javanese keris terminology, is a highly specialized terminology. It came from Javanese language, not Indonesian. Today, even an ordinary Javanese, which was born and speak Javanese every day, is not 'guarantee' to understand some specific keris's jargons such as ganja, greneng, or mendhak. It is a highly specialized jargon for special peoples : keris lover

. So, if you are looking a keris jargon in Indonesian Dictionary, it will be very likely taht you find none, or misleaded, such if you find 'ukiran' you may find 'carving' other than 'handle' as the translation. It doesn't mean that Javanese dictionary will 100% help you either. It may help you, but not 100%. Not even the thick Zoetmulder dictionary. I heard SNKI will compose a Dictionary on Keris Terminology, but I think it may face it's own challenge: disagreement amongs keris expert regarding some specific terminology. But it is worth to try

Yes, Indonesia language use prefix and suffix extensively, and the original word might changed a little bit. If you cannot find the base word, you may try an online dictionary which allow you to put whole word. Perhaps this may help :

http://www.kamus.net/

Software on learning Indonesian : (Free, they said, but unfortunately I haven't tried it) :

http://www.byki.com/download_FLS.pl?cod=4x8BU1

Most of all, you have this forum, certainly for free

Cheers,

Boedhi Adhitya

30th November 2007, 05:01 AM	#2
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Yes, Mas Ganja. All the mendhak's pictures on your latest post are Jogjas, IMHO. The one with gems is kendhit. It use filigree in spite of ordinary meniran/beads. Just a variation, I think. Kendhit means belt, belted with gems, in this case, and the one with metal ball called mendhak lugas. Lugas simply means 'plain'. The kendhit is not necessarily better than lugas. With a good balance and execution, the lugas frequently beat the ordinary kendhit, in term of beauty, not money, of course Please bear in mind, while the 'lugas' and 'kendhit' are the proper terminology to define the mendhak's type especially in the court's circle, it might be unrecognized by some local seller. You might use 'polos' instead of 'lugas' (means the same, 'plain') or with/without mata (='eyes', the gems). 'robyong' is recognizable for three tier mendhak (might also in use with dhapurs, ex. sinom robyong). Last edited by Boedhi Adhitya; 30th November 2007 at 06:05 AM.

5th December 2007, 09:08 AM	#4
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Mendhak and Selut Dear All, Some mendhak "robyong" Solonese type (?) and "selut" of Banyumasan type. Also combination on the robyong mendhak and Banyumas selut.. Banyumas is a vassal of Solo Kingdom in the past, although Banyumas located far away from Solo -- in the western part of South-Central Java... The plastic tool box -- that you may find easily in supermarkets -- might be used as a "keris spareparts" box. Don't throw away the old and broken selut. It might be usefull someday, to repair your broken mendhak... Ganjawulung Attached Images

9th December 2007, 05:56 PM	#6
Michel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 139	frustrations ! gentlemen, I like indeed your discussion about mendak, about keris, about the history of Indonesia, etc. but you use often words in Indonesian that I do not understand. As I have purchased an excellent English-Indonesian dictionary (as recommended by my good adviser from Australia who speaks both languages) I have tried to look for these words and other from the book "Keris Jawa antara Mystic dan nalar". To my great frustration, I have found none ! Assuming that I am not a complete nut, (past history is no proof for the present) I must do something wrong when I look at words in my dictionary. I suspect it may come from the prefix and suffix used in Indonesian. or from the spelling as it appears that Indonesian word may be spelled variously. (i.e. mendak, mendhak). Can you tel me how can I identify the base form of the word ? ( in particular since bases undergo apparently modifications when certain prefixes are attached.) Please do not answer the easy way by telling me : learn Indonesian ! I have tried some 10 years ago with Bahasa Malaysia and already at that time it was not a success ! Thanks for any clue Michel Last edited by Michel; 9th December 2007 at 06:22 PM.

1st December 2007, 11:55 AM	#3
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Ganja, Adhitya Thanks a lot for nice pictures and great explanation

10th December 2007, 01:44 AM	#8
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Dear Michel, I'm terribly sorry to hear that you became frustrated on learning Indonesian, and keris terminology, specifically. Keris's terminology, especially Javanese keris terminology, is a highly specialized terminology. It came from Javanese language, not Indonesian. Today, even an ordinary Javanese, which was born and speak Javanese every day, is not 'guarantee' to understand some specific keris's jargons such as ganja, greneng, or mendhak. It is a highly specialized jargon for special peoples : keris lover . So, if you are looking a keris jargon in Indonesian Dictionary, it will be very likely taht you find none, or misleaded, such if you find 'ukiran' you may find 'carving' other than 'handle' as the translation. It doesn't mean that Javanese dictionary will 100% help you either. It may help you, but not 100%. Not even the thick Zoetmulder dictionary. I heard SNKI will compose a Dictionary on Keris Terminology, but I think it may face it's own challenge: disagreement amongs keris expert regarding some specific terminology. But it is worth to try Yes, Indonesia language use prefix and suffix extensively, and the original word might changed a little bit. If you cannot find the base word, you may try an online dictionary which allow you to put whole word. Perhaps this may help : http://www.kamus.net/ Software on learning Indonesian : (Free, they said, but unfortunately I haven't tried it) : http://www.byki.com/download_FLS.pl?cod=4x8BU1 Most of all, you have this forum, certainly for free Cheers, Boedhi Adhitya