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Old 8th December 2004, 12:46 AM   #1
John
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My layman's pinyin & translation of the characters:

Top characters read as Tung (together) Sheng (prosperous).
Bottom characters as Tai (great) He (river).

Perhaps someone more academic could decode deeper.

The 3 symbols are indeed of 3 of the 8 immortals Fearn mentioned. But I'm a little surprised your blade does not have the "7 stars", an important symbol for a Daoist if indeed the Jian has Daoist connection. The blade reminds me of one I had the priviledge of seeing in pictures a few years ago belonging to Bill Marsh, a very nice Jian and restored by the same restorer I think.

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Old 10th December 2004, 03:18 AM   #2
Nick Wardigo
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Being a jian collector, I thought I'd chime in.

From experience, I associate this style of scabbard fittings to very late Qing (late 19th century to early 20th). Toward the end of the dynasty, the fittings tend to be more simple (at least on the user pieces). Your fittings appear to be substantial, something that isn't universally true.

The scabbard and handle carvings are a bit of a puzzle for me. I've seen similar handle carving on butterfly swords of the same era, but very rarely on a jian handle, and I don't think I've ever seen it on a scabbard. Very nice.

I would associate the scabbard and handle with the scabbard fittings, that is, I think they were put together at the same time. I think the crossguard and probably the pommel are from another set. This type of scabbard fitting is usually paired with a similarly simple crossguard. Coming from the other direction, this style of hilt fitting is usually paired with a similarly decorated scabbard fitting (like the example that John posted). I suspect the blade and hilt fittings are older (early to mid-1800s), and the weapon was re-scabbarded and re-handled in the early 1900s.

I agree that the decoration is likely Taoist, but I would not discount the possibility of Buddhist. While the references to the 8 Immortals certainly points to Taoism, I'd like to draw attention to the use of swastikas in the background pattern. While the swastika is also a Taoist symbol, I usually association this type of patterning with Buddhism; one often sees it on Korean and Vietnamese weapons.

The blade is quite nice. I'm not surprised about the lack of the seven stars. I don't have hard statistics or anything, but I find they show up on about half of the nicer blades I encounter.
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Old 10th December 2004, 04:32 AM   #3
fearn
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I'm certainly not a jian collector--mine are simply for practicing.

Correct me if I'm wrong Nick, but aren't there six stars in the fittings on the scabbard and hilt? I'm fascinated by your idea that the guard and pommel are from another set, and I wonder if perhaps that's where the seventh star went.

I'd also like to quibble with something said earlier. Yes, the jian was a dueling sword, whereas the dao was more of a military saber (thinking of the regular one, not the infinite variants). Kumar Frantzis (a noted Taoist martial artist) stated that the jian was better in a 1-on-1 duel, whereas the dao was better in a 1-on-many melee. Don't know if he's right, but it makes some sense.

However, I think that the idea that the Taoists preferred the jian is because the tai chi jian art is so refined. If you look at Pakua chang, which has equally deep (if not deeper) taoist roots, you'll find that their greatest swordsmen all used the dao, although Pakua jian sets certainly exist. In other words, it takes all kinds.

Returning to this fine blade, I wonder if we're reading a bit much into the decorations. I keep remembering the jian that turned up on ebay a few years back, that had a working abacus built into the blade near the hilt. I think that, in both these cases, someone was willing to pay for the extra work on their swords, and in this case, they chose an eight immortals theme for whatever reason. Since there is at least one eight immortals jian set that I'm aware of, I'd speculate that the original owner of the blade simply liked the set, or some eight immortals style (there are a couple, including drunken styles).

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Old 11th December 2004, 12:37 AM   #4
Nick Wardigo
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Fearn--

Actually, the cut-out decoration you're seeing on the scabbard fittings and hilt ferrule are coins, not stars. Take a look at the square hole inside the circle, indicative of ancient Chinese coins. To quote from "Symbols and Rebuses in Chinese Art" by Fang Jing Pei (Ten Speed Press, 2004, p. 46), "Coins have many symbolic meanings in Chinese culture, all of which have to do with wealth and riches." You see it crop up a lot. I currently own a Taoist ritual jian that has eight of these on its scabbard and hilt fittings.

I think the comment that Taoists preferred jian stems from the nature of jian fencing, which is typically more complex and requires a longer amount of time to master. To a Taoist, the extreme attention to an infinite number of details may be akin to a form of meditation. This takes jian practice outside the realm of combat (or rather, strictly combat) and into religious practice. From that perspective, it would be correct to say that Taoists preferred jian. I might add that any casual perusal of Taoist religious art will show Immortals, heroes, and deities typically using jian over other weapons (there are exceptions).

Rick--
You mentioned that "it is the first of its exact kind that Philip has run across." Could you elaborate on that? Are you referring to the carving on the scabbard, or some element of the blade? I only ask because whenever Phil says something like that, I tend to listen VERY closely.
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Old 11th December 2004, 04:54 AM   #5
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I appreciate all the input. It has been very enlightening.

Nick,

Philip pointed out several unique features about this piece. He mentioned that this is the first example he has run across where the scabbard was of carved wood and so intricately carved at that. Another unique feature was the pommel. Philip mentioned he has only seen one other pommel like this one and it was on a sword in the Met's collection. He also speculated that the blade might be 18th century or earlier. Since the tang was not visible for a more educated guess, he based this on the fact that the tip was very thick at the edges, almost like a chisel, and this could indicate that it was originally intended to pierce armour. The blade is certainly stout enough to hold up to such a task. The edges on this sword are also very, very hard. Your comments on the heavy brass fittings on the scabbard and the pommel/guard are right on the money.
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