Inscriptions on Keris?

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Kiai Carita

I am certain that I have read somewhere, that the first inscriptions of keris mention it as KRES, and experts who analysed the prasasti were convinced that kres means keris. I notice your certainty in judging the knowledge of the experts who examined the paticular prasasti that I think was mentioned in Harsrinuksma's ensiklopedi. I can't say that they were not certain that the word kres in the prasasti was refering to an object we would now recognize as a keris. In fact, I believe their opinion, that kres is refering to keris..

Mas Bram,

The word "kres" in old inscription was quoted -- not only by Bambang Harsrinuksmo in his Keris Ensiklopedi (2004) -- but also by Haryono Guritno in his recent book "Keris Jawa, Antara Mistik dan Nalar" (2006), and Ensiklopedi Kebudayaan Jawa (2005) by Dr Purwadi M Hum. According to the three gentlemen, "kres" was mentioned in Prasasti (Inscription) Karang Tengah which dated 748 Saka or 842 AD (Anno Domini).

The inscription of Karang Tengah, according to the three gentlemen, mentioned several kinds of "sesaji" (offerings) to clarify that Poh (name of area) was a free-tax area. And the sesaji were "kres, wangkiul, tewek punukan, wesi penghatap. ("Kres" was interpreted as kris, "wangkiul" sort of spear, "tewek punukan" kind of spear with to tips or kind of dwisula, and "wesi penghatap" not interpreted.

In his "Keris Jawa" book, Mr Haryono Guritno even wrote:
Kris (not "kres") was written in Prasasti (Inscription) Rukam which dated from 829 Saka or 907 AD. This inscription, according to Mr Guritno, even mention a kind of "categorization" of tools which was made from iron. Iron in modern Javanese is "wesi". And probable "wsi" in older term.

The quotation of that inscription of Rukam, according to Mr Guritno as follows:
... wsi-wsi prakara, wadung, rimwas, patuk-patuk, lukai, tampilan, linggis, tatah, wangkiul, kris, gulumi, kurumbahgi, pamajba, kampi, dom... (It translated as follows: ... all kind of needs which made of iron as ax, rimwas ax, adze, sickle, tampilan (?), crowbar, chisel, plow, kris, spear, knife, jack plane, grass cutter, needle...)

Mr Guritno also mentioned some inscriptions which could be used as research on keris, as prasasti Humanding (797 Saka or 875 AD), Jurungan (798 Saka or 876 AD), Haliwangbang (798 Saka or 876 AD), Taji (823 Saka or 901 AD), Poh (827 Saka or 905 AD), Rukam (829 Saka or 907 AD), and Prasasti Sanggaran (850 Saka or 928 AD).

Study on Early Java's history -- according to Zoetmoelder (1985) -- began with date of 25th of March 804, thanks to the finding of Prasasti Sukabumi (Sukabumi Inscription) that wrote: "In the year of 726 Saka year, in the month of Saitra, on the 11th day 'paro terang' (midday?), on the eve of Haryang or 2nd day of the week which consists of six days, "Wage" or the 4th day in a week which consists of five days, "Saniscara" or the 7th day of the week which consists of seven days... (Zoetmoelder, 1985:3)

Oh, I am so sorry, Gentlemen...

This is just the beginning of another annoying and unuseful thread...

Ganjawulung

[ganjawulung]

Hindhu Mataram to Islamic Mataram

(You may omit this post, if it wastes your precious time)

The finding of Sukabumi Inscription – which mentioned the time frame of Early Java on March 804 -- was very valuable for the validity of the historiography of Java in that era. Prasasti Mantyasih (Mantyasih Inscription) which had found in Kedu, Magelang Central Java and dated from 907, mentioned the names of kings of Ancient Mataram. From Rakai (king) Mataram Sang Ratu Sanjaya to Sri Maharaja Empu Sindok. (Hindhu Mataram then moved from Central Java to East Java in 929 AD, supposed ‘cause of the Mount Merapi eruption that destroyed part of Hindhu Mataram sites in Central Java).

One of the admirable notes, in this Early Jawa period – according to Zoetmulder (1985:179) – education on humaniora got a respected place in the kingdom. Litterature, according to Zoetmulder, not only monopolized by the elite in the kingdom. Education on poems, was obligatory for public, mainly the palace employees and prominent figure in the society. (Zoetmulder, 1985:179).

Padepokan and perguron (kind of educational camps and institutions) bloomed. Litterature got a respected place in the heart of the society. And the oldest work of Litterature was Serat Candakarana which was written in the reign of Syailendra Dynasty around 700 Saka, and the construction of Kalasan temple (Eastern of Jogjakarta now).

Two rivalry dynasty reigned Hindhu Mataram, during 8th century to 9th century. The Syailendra Dynasty – King Bhanu (752-775), Wisnu (775-782), Indra (782-812), Smarattungga (812-833) who built Borobudur, Pramodawardhani (833-856) which had been married to Rakai Pikatan of rivalry dynasty of Sanjaya.

Kings of Sanjaya Dynasty – Sanjaya (732-7xx), Rakai Panangkaran (not known the year), Rakai Patapan (838-855) this king then kicked the Syailendra Dynasty from power by marrying Pramodawardhani. Rakai Kayuwangi (855-885), Dyah Tagwas (885), Rakay Panumwangan Dyah Dewendra (885-887), Rakai Gurunwangi Dyah Badra (887), Rakai Watuhumalang (894-898), Rakai Watukura Dyah Balitung (898-910), Daksa (910-919), Tulodong (919-921), Dyah Wawa (924-928), Mpu Sindhok 928-929) moved to East Java.

Medang Kingdom (East Java)
Mpu Sindhok (929-947), Sri Isyanatunggawijaya (947-9xx), Makutawangsawardhana (9xx-1006).

Kahuripan Kingdom (East Java)
Airlangga (1019-1045) he built the kingdom from the ruins, because of the Sriwijaya attack
Airlangga then divided the kingdom into two kingdom of Janggala and Kediri. Some people in Java called this period as the period of Pajajaran (or, two parallel kingdoms). The period of Kediri kingdom is from 1116-1222. Then Singhasari kingdom of Ken Arok (1222-1227). The last king of Singhasari was Kertanegara (1254-1292).

Then, Majapahit 1293-1519 (East Java), Demak 1478-1561 (Central Java), Pajang, then Islamic Mataram (1575-1727 moved to Kartasura then, the division of Mataram kingdom to Solo and Jogjakarta…

Ganjawulung (from several sources)

[David]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Oh, I am so sorry, Gentlemen...

This is just the beginning of another annoying and unuseful thread...

Ganjawulung

Certainly not annoying and probably not unuseful...however, since it is clear that the meaning of words have a habit of shifting and changing their definitions over time i am afraid that there will never be any positive way to ever say that the words "kres" or "kris" in these writings were ever meant to refer to anything that we could call a keris today.

[A. G. Maisey]

Pak Ganja, it seems to me that your posting of these interesting snippits of information is causing you to doubt the worth of your contributions.

You should not doubt yourself.

All of this is good, interesting material, especially for people who do not have access to the resources available to you.Even though I myself do have access to many of these resources, your extraction of the data and posting in precis form is interesting to me.

Firstly, allow me to thank you for correcting my error in a different thread. Yes, I agree, the use of the word "kres" occurred in an inscription dating from circa 842AD, not 500AD. I was wrong.One should never write from memory, it is always better to check facts first. Speed kills.

You have mentioned a number of inscriptions.

All these inscriptions date from after the time when Old Javanese was used as the language for the inscription.

Zoetmulder lists the word "kris" as existing in the Old Javanese lexicon, and he gives its meaning in Bahasa Indonesia as "keris".

The word "kris" can be accepted as the archaic form of the modern word "keris".

Nobody in their right mind could dispute this.

However, what is open to question is this:-

what was the physical form of object that was referred to as "kris" in these inscriptions?

We know that it is an almost universal trait of language development that over time the meaning of a word will change, and the physical form of objects to which an archaic word refers, will change.We have two elements of change occurring in parallel dimensions:- the abstract (term of reference), and the physical (actual object). Because of this constant and continuing change, we can have no confidence that simply because a similar word may exist in an archaic lexicon, that that word refers to the object that it may appear to refer to.

In the case of the keris, we have representations of keris-like objects at Candi Prambanan, and several other locations, but at the present time, we need to accept the Prambanan representations as the earliest.Prambanan dates from circa 850AD. It may well be that these objects shown at Prambanan were referred to as "kris".However, we do not know this, because regrettably none of the craftsmen who created the reliefs at Candi Prambanan were thoughtful enough to place little arrows pointing to these keris-like daggers, along with a caption, saying "this is a kris".

The matter is further complicated by the occurrence of other words in existence at the same time. Words such as "tewek" and "tuhuk".

In Old Javanese the word "kris" was a root word, so we had derivatives such as "akris", and "kinris", then we had "anris" and "aneris". It seems that very probably the word "kris" in Old Javanese referred to a dagger, not necessarily the specific type of dagger that we would now recognise as a keris.

Now, we know that the Modern Keris did not exist when these inscriptions were made, we also know that the keris-like dagger form is not shown being used in a rapier-like fashion until after the beginning of the twelfth century in East Jawa.

In summary:-

yes, the word "kris" does exist in Old Javanese; yes, keris-like daggers did exist in both Central Jawa and East Jawa prior to the 14th century

however, there is no evidence that will permit us to assume that the Old Javanese word "kris" was used to describe an object that we would now classify as a keris.

But all of the above has still not dealt with this troublesome word "kres".

Zoetmulder lists just six words in Old Javanese that commence with "kre---". Only six words, and none of these words are "kres".

The only reference to "kres" that I have seen, apart from the quotes in keris publications, was "patuk kres". I've already said that I can find no evidence that "kres" is a part of the Old Javanese lexicon, however, "patuk" is an Old Javanese word; it was a type of tool, very probably an adze. It is probable that a "patuk kres" was a type of small adze used for taking fine slices.I am drawing this conclusion based upon the meaning of "kres" in Moderrn Javanese.

I feel that to reach any definite conclusions in respect of this "kres" word as related to the keris, we need to do this:- go back to the original inscription, examine that inscription, ensure that the translation of it, and then the romanisation of the translation are both beyond question; if after this we are still left with the word "kres", we need to consider the possibility of an alternative rendering of the word keris, generated by either original inaccuracy, or possibly style at that time and place. When a perceived fact disagrees with other established facts, the perceived fact must be investigated fully to either confirm it or attempt to explain its variation from the established facts.

[A. G. Maisey]

Once again Pak Ganja, you are being overly modest.

The over-view you have provided in your "Mataram" post is very valuable, and I am positive interesting, to many of the people who follow this discussion group.

I compliment you on your knowledge of the traditional history of Jawa.

There are a couple of very minor things that I would like to mention, if I may.

Firstly, the reasons for the disappearance of the Syailendras from Central Jawa is still not established with any certainty.

The same is true of the shift of the seat of power from Central Jawa to East Jawa. I think the currently popular theory for this is that the people were a little put out by the constant demands for labour made upon them by their lords, so they just got up and walked. A ruler without subjects was not really a ruler in Old Jawa, so the boss bowed to popular opinion and moved too. The nature and position of a ruler in Old Jawa was somewhat different to the way in which we think of a ruler today.

For those readers who may not be familiar with the difficulties associated with the history of Old Jawa, it is possibly best to mention that all dates are only approximate, and can be argued backwards and forth until the cows come home. For instance, Pak Ganja has given us 1519 as the end date of Majapahit, but some people will put it at 1525, and most other authorities will opt for an earlier date. There are multiple interpretations, and no certainty.

Similarly with names. Pak Ganja mentions the Kingdom of Medang. To the uninitiated this could easily be confused with Medang Kamulan. Medang is historic; Medang Kamulan is mythical.

The division of Airlangga's kingdom is something that seems to cause historians some problems.It may not have been quite as it is presented in the traditions. Some tellings of this would have the two kingdoms as Jenggala and Panjalu, with Kahuripan as the capital of Jenggala, and Kediri as the capital of Panjalu.

Still, all of my comments are only minor things. This is a keris discussion group, not an online examination in early Javanese history. The important thing is that these postings could awake the interest of readers in this subject.

For those who would like to pursue this further, there is an enormous amount of information available on the internet. Much of it is garbled, confused, and straightout incorrect, but if you ignore the details it can make very interesting reading.You could try starting with Wikipedia.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I feel that to reach any definite conclusions in respect of this "kres" word as related to the keris, we need to do this:- go back to the original inscription, examine that inscription, ensure that the translation of it, and then the romanisation of the translation are both beyond question; if after this we are still left with the word "kres", we need to consider the possibility of an alternative rendering of the word keris, generated by either original inaccuracy, or possibly style at that time and place. When a perceived fact disagrees with other established facts, the perceived fact must be investigated fully to either confirm it or attempt to explain its variation from the established facts.

Yes Alan,

I agree with you, that we must go back to the original inscription. I am very obvious to see what Dr Purwadi said in his book (2005), on the "oldest relief of (probably early) keris form" which depicted in a stone inscription which was found in Dakuwu village, Grabag, (Northern of) Magelang. It said, it was dated back to 500 AD. The text was written in Pallava, with Sanskrit language.

The inscription, according to Dr Purwadi, mentioned a very clear natural fountain. Above the prasasti (writings in inscription) it was depicted some forms of "tools" like: trisula spear, ax, dagger and a form of blade that ressemble the form of "sombro" like (of course empu Sombro lived in the very different era) keris. Sombro herself, lived in Pajajaran era -- probably in Jenggala and Kediri era. I am obvious to see this inscription, but not yet...

Ganjawulung

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, I've seen mention of this relief, but only mention.

I don't know where the relief is located, or where it may be seen. Is it still in situ, or off in a store house somewhere?

Personally, I like to see the reliefs . Reports and photos can often be unreliable. There are a number of cases where dedicated keris fanatics have doctored photos of reliefs to make things appear more keris-like. We really need to see the relief itself, and examine it closely, under magnification if necessary, and to try to find supporting evidence for what we think we might be seeing. Old stone carvings can become altered in shape over time.

It would be very nice if we could find something reliable that predates Prambanan.

When we are looking for an early form of keris, we probably need to keep our minds open as to exactly what we can consider to be "keris-like". My personal feeling is that at least we need asymmetry.

Tell me, why do you think that Sombro lived in East Jawa?

I've always thought of her, her antecedents, and descendants, as from Pajajaran, with the descendants making a later move to East Jawa, at the time of the exodus of iron workers from Pajajaran to East Jawa.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Tell me, why do you think that Sombro lived in East Jawa?

I've always thought of her, her antecedents, and descendants, as from Pajajaran, with the descendants making a later move to East Jawa, at the time of the exodus of iron workers from Pajajaran to East Jawa.

Multi-interpretable. Yes, Alan, that's really "javanese culture". Even if I say yes, this could means no. That's javanese. Even a real javanese still ask the person he speaks to, although the person has already say yes or no. Sometimes we heard in the daily life: "Nggih-nggih ora kepanggih". That means to say to somebody that has say "yes", but actually he or she say "no" by heart...

Like Aji Saka. Of course, he is not real Aji Saka. It could mean, "important pillar" in life, or another person that has characteristic as the written hope. Medang Kamulan means Early Medang -- it could be another old Medang, other than Medang of Empu Sindhok.

Pajajaran? Literally, it means "parallel thing" (noun). Could be interpreted as "two parallel kingdoms" (after Airlangga era) that means Kahuripan and Panjalu or Jenggala and Kediri (?). But not "Padjadjaran" in the west Java. That's another Pajajaran. That was probably Pajajaran of Kudi and Kujang era. Maybe in the "Kabudan" era (circa the end of Sanjaya or Syailendra era).

That's just my humble opinion, Alan. It is opened to be discuss...

Ganjawulung

[A. G. Maisey]

I see, we're playing Javanese word games, are we?

Pak Ganja, it is well known to anybody who has studied Javanese culture and society, or to anybody who has spent a reasonable length of time in Jawa, that the Javanese people are very fond of playing with words, and that no reliance at all can be placed upon anything they say, or any committments they undertake.

Certainly, as you mention, "yes" often means no; "no" can sometimes mean yes; agreement to do something can never be taken as agreement ; no reliance can ever be placed upon arrangements that have been put in place and confirmed; appointments may or may not be kept, and if they are kept, there could be a variation of a couple of hours either way as compared to the agreed time; answers to questions will frequently reflect what the informant believes the questioner wants to hear, rather than accuracy; questions in any case, should never be asked directly, but hinted at and approached indirectly; when an answer that is an approximate representation of fact is given, it will often be given in a way that permits several choices. And of course, the circumstances under which these most charming cultural mores are exercised almost invariably reflects heirarchical position and economic advantage.

The propensity of Javanese people to regard the words they use as their own personal property is well known to linguists.

The words used by a Javanese person mean no more, and no less, than he intends them to mean.

Of course, the problem with this is that although the user of the words may clearly understand their intent, the listener sometimes may not. This can facilitate ease of conversation between family and close friends, but for somebody outside the circle it creates an impossible situation.

The other well known feature of Javanese culture that you have drawn attention to is the habit of mixing historically supportable fact with myth.

This is not just something that is a part of folk culture, but it can sometimes be found in text books.There is probably not a great deal wrong with this, provided it is used only within the culture. After all, history itself is only a set of stories that everybody agrees upon. Probably no real harm in adding in a few myths and legends.

However, when that history moves to the world stage, we find that a somewhat different set of rules apply. Those miserable Europeans---and those of European descent--- want supportable fact, reason, logic, evidence. Damned inconvenient, and not at all comfortable!

Pak Ganja, I understand your culture, and I respect it. It is unique, and once we scratch past the superficial, has much to offer.
However, in this discussion group we are catering to a wide cross section of the international community. We are using the English Language, and the use of that language requires that we also use thought patterns that are able to be expressed using the medium of that language.
Regretably, Javanese word games do not easily translate in the English Language.

Take a parrallel example:- would it be reasonable if I posted my comments in the combination of Cockney rhyming slang and Australian patois that I use with many of my friends? Almost nobody who visits this forum would understand a word I said.

You are an educated man, and your English is excellent.

Could I request in the most humble and respectful fashion that you cease playing Javanese word games, and express yourself in a manner that may be comprehended by most of our readers?

What do I mean by this?

You tell us that "Pajajaran" can be interpreted as a "parrallel thing".
I understand the way you have arrived at this, and it is typical of Javanese word play.
"Jajaran" means "in rows".
Rows usually run in parrallel, so we can twist this to mean "parrallel".
"Jajaran" is a part of "Pajajaran", so we can repress the "pa" and we have "jajaran".
Two kingdoms , side by side, can be interpreted as "parrallel kingdoms".
Parrallel kingdoms are clearly "Pajajaran".

Standing in Kediri, and having a conversation in Indonesian or Javanese about the division of the kingdoms, this makes perfect sense, enlivens the conversation, and demonstrates the flexibility of your mind. Actually this play is possibly more understandable in Indonesian, than in Javanese, as "jajar" comes into Indonesian as "sejajar", which is in fact "parrallel"; in Javanese some mental gymnastics are required to generate the English Language idea of "parrallel".

Trying to express the same idea in English on an internet forum does not have quite the same effect.

There was only one Kingdom of Pajajaran, even though that kingdom did go through several moves, and it was located in Sunda, not East Jawa.

However, I have seen a tangguh of "Pajajaran III" given to a keris blade, and "Pajajaran III" was supposedly in East Jawa. This is a part of our tangguh system of belief, and not historically supportable.

Pak Ganja, it is most definitely not my place to try to advise you on how to present yourself, but were I in your position, I would give sober consideration to adopting a form of presentation that is slightly more comprehensible in international terms.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The other well known feature of Javanese culture that you have drawn attention to is the habit of mixing historically supportable fact with myth.

This is not just something that is a part of folk culture, but it can sometimes be found in text books.There is probably not a great deal wrong with this, provided it is used only within the culture. After all, history itself is only a set of stories that everybody agrees upon. Probably no real harm in adding in a few myths and legends.

Thank you, Alan for reminding me this "bad habit", about mixing history with myth. Fact with "dongeng" (story). Yes, even in text books you may find this "javanese habit". (So, no wonder about the side-meaning of "javanais" in some French sense as 'unlogical' or sometimes 'stupid').

Inscriptions, are factual evidence. But story like "Sombro" is indeed still "dongeng". Still have no factual evidence... Also the interpretation of Pajajaran. Kingdom of Pajajaran, then people will directly remember with Pajajaran in West Java. But "tangguh pajajaran" or maybe "tangguh pejajaran" -- is not factual but interpretation. It maybe translated not as tangguh from "Pajajaran Kingdom", but "tangguh pajajaran". Like "tangguh pengging". In story (not history), Pengging was not a name of any Javanese kingdom. It was only a small -- it was said in dongeng -- but important area before the Mataram (Islamic) period. Yes, this is what you mean by "word game". But sometimes, in speaking of Javanese keris, it seems quite impossible not to mention this kind of "mixing habit".

Oral traditions in the past Javanese culture, might be different with written tradition in noting evidence, events, in the western culture. But I found too, such habit when I was learning Latin language for six years intensively during my High School time.

Learning Latin -- or maybe Greek language too -- is different with learning English or French. In Latin, people must study folklore and legends too. For instance about the making of the city of Roma. All we had learned was legend, legend and legend. Or story on Gallia, which we interpreted as Early France. Also when I learned the poems (oratory) of Cicero book on Julius Caesar. We were ought to interprete, sometimes, on the meaning of the oratory on poems. Word games too. Very, very complicated for a non Latin native as me...

Were Latin Language everyday (one or two hours in schools everyday) I've learned unlogic? Not at all. Indeed, Latin language is very logic and obligatory to grasp the law and order of the complicated grammatical structure. Sometimes, even I have a "limited belief" that if you want to learn logica you must exercise with problem solving in Latin grammar....

French. Yes, it has the root on Latin structure. But I was ought to understand the different civilization. For me, learning language is also learning civilization. So I must know the civilization of the language too. I must learn to understand the habitude of the people who are native with the language.

Sorry for wandering a little bit. Of course, this is a waroeng...
Anyway, thank you Alan, for reminding me on this habit

Ganjawulung

[A. G. Maisey]

Pak Ganja, I would not say that mixing myth, legend, and history is a bad thing.

But I would say that it is something that a person who is unfamiliar with Javanese culture might find to be very confusing.

You are right of course:- when we discuss the keris it is inevitable that myth and legend will creep into our discussion; this is a part of keris culture. In Jawa some people will accept all the myth, all the legend as equal with supportable historic fact; others will not. But when we present myth and legend mixed with history to people who are outside Javanese culture, they have no frame of reference, and they can become very confused.

I agree totally with you:- the learning of language is more than the learning of a vocab and grammar. We need the body language, the mannerisms, in fact we need to change the way in which we think, when we attempt to communicate in a language other than our mother tongue. Sometimes we are successful, other times we are not. However, one thing is certain:- we usually need to moderate our native forms of expression and our native body language, and our native mannerisms , or it will not be long before nobody wants to talk to us, no matter how perfectly we can use the adopted language.If we do not understand the culture of a society, we simply cannot communicate effectively.

Similarly, the way in which Javanese people use their own language, with twists and turns and skillful manipulation, is in itself an art form, but it is an art form that is often totally incomprehensible to an outsider--- I do not mean just a non-native speaker of Javanese, I mean anybody outside the group who can be expected to understand the particular art of language being employed.

Pak Ganja, you are in an almost unique position:- you are an educated man who is also familiar on the deepest level with Javanese culture and society, moreover, you are prepared to talk more or less openly with a whole bunch of ignorant bules.

Please consider how much you have to offer, and whether you are doing yourself a favour, not to mention Javanese culture, by failing to present your knowledge in the most easily understood fashion.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes, I've seen mention of this relief, but only mention.

I don't know where the relief is located, or where it may be seen. Is it still in situ, or off in a store house somewhere?

Dear Alan,

Maybe somewhere, in museum. But not in the National Museum in Jakarta. I've just visited the museum this afternoon. There are more than 20 prasasti there, mostly dated from 8th-10th century. Some from Mulawarman era (5th?). But not exist there, Dakuwu Inscription that were found in Grabag, Magelang. Someone in the Archeological dept of the Museum will try to search for me the existence of that interesting inscription...

Ganjawulung

[A. G. Maisey]

That sounds like a good start, Pak Ganja.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

...moreover, you are prepared to talk more or less openly with a whole bunch of ignorant bules.

Hey wait a second....i resemble that remark!
Sorry Ganja, just a little bit of self-deprecating English word play.

[A. G. Maisey]

David---mate---pleeese---don't you start.

[Boedhi Adhitya]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

The word "kres" in old inscription was quoted -- not only by Bambang Harsrinuksmo in his Keris Ensiklopedi (2004) -- but also by Haryono Guritno in his recent book "Keris Jawa, Antara Mistik dan Nalar" (2006), and Ensiklopedi Kebudayaan Jawa (2005) by Dr Purwadi M Hum. According to the three gentlemen, "kres" was mentioned in Prasasti (Inscription) Karang Tengah which dated 748 Saka or 842 AD (Anno Domini).

Unfortunately, this three gentlemen didn't mention the sources they quoted from. But in regard of Ensiklopedi Keris of Ensiklopedi Budaya Nusantara (the earlier edition of Ensiklopedi Keris), as I recall, it could be attributed to S. Lumintu. His book 'Besi, Baja dan Pamor Keris' also quoting the inscription and the picture from the insciption. Lumintu was a Ensiklopedi Keris' contibutor also. There is a short bibliography in Lumintu's book, thus you could probably find the book he was quoting from. I'm apologize for not giving you further hint, as I don't have the book at hand now.

Regarding the 'wsi-wsi prakara', according to Denys Lombard, were a set of agricultural tools given by the king to be used by the Sima's owner/lord, as iron was scarce in Java. The Sima, a free-tax land, usually bestowed to Brahmin who took care a temple. Golds also provided to the local landlord/official as compensations for their tax-losts. By providing a free-tax land and all the tools needed, a king secured the Brahmin's loyalty/favor towards him. The land-for-loyalty policy preserved long after the Hindu eras. In Mataram Islam times it was called 'Perdikan', were given to the local/court 'strongmen' (It might be already in used since Demak/Pajang era), Those who held Perdikan called "Ki Ageng"
This, unfortunately, didn't explain the function of kris as part of 'wsi-wsi prakara' in insciptions. Was it a part of 'agricultural tool' or 'weapon'? Was it simply a ceremonial offering (sajen), or was it a 'Sima's Pusaka', which served as the Sima's symbol ? It was quite common in legends/stories that a Kadipaten or Perdikan was attributed to certain pusaka, for examples, Kyai Baru Klinthing was attributed to Ki Ageng Mangir, thus also attributed to The Mangir Perdikan. Until now, Madiun still retains it's Kadipaten's Pusakas.

Many of the Javanese's traditional histories/legends, especially those from Babads, were 'engineered' to support the court's legitimacy. But with use of care, some real historical evidence could be 'extracted'. The Medang Kamulan, according to Denys Lombard (once again) who quoted the Chinese source/report, was situated near the 'natural salt source'. As there is only one 'natural salt source' exists in Java, Lombard proposed that Medang Kamulan was situated near 'Bledug Kuwu', Grobogan, Central Java.

http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bledug_Kuwu

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Maybe somewhere, in museum. But not in the National Museum in Jakarta. I've just visited the museum this afternoon. There are more than 20 prasasti there, mostly dated from 8th-10th century. Some from Mulawarman era (5th?). But not exist there, Dakuwu Inscription that were found in Grabag, Magelang. Someone in the Archeological dept of the Museum will try to search for me the existence of that interesting inscription...

Mas Ganja, I should take my hat off for your effort Perhaps you should go to Balai Arkeologi Jogjakarta (while hunting for some kerises, ). Reading an inscription isn't an easy job. By the way, have you seen the (not so) newly open gold room in National Museum ? It has some beautiful keris collections. The unsheated 'Si Ginje' is exhibited, amongs other. Harsrinuksmo falsely mentioned it as having dhapur Singa barong, as I recall.

Please note that every quotation here based only on my memory, which has been proven to be unreliable, and as it getting colder here, my memory tends to be more sluggish . As I would be away from home for quite a long time, I can not check everything on the book, and I'm too lazy to borrow it from British Museum. I apologize for the trouble and inconvenient that I've made.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Boedhi Adhitya

Many of the Javanese's traditional histories/legends, especially those from Babads, were 'engineered' to support the court's legitimacy. But with use of care, some real historical evidence could be 'extracted'. The Medang Kamulan, according to Denys Lombard (once again) who quoted the Chinese source/report, was situated near the 'natural salt source'. As there is only one 'natural salt source' exists in Java, Lombard proposed that Medang Kamulan was situated near 'Bledug Kuwu', Grobogan, Central Java.

http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bledug_Kuwu

Nice to "see" you again in this Waroeng, Mas Boed. I know that you are a "Britt-man" now... (this gentlemen is studying in England since this November). Thanks, for your valuable view on "Medang Kamulan". By coincidence, I went and "stayed" for more than one week in Grobogan -- also visited Bleduk Kuwu -- to make a simple documentation on folk arts in Blora and Purwodadi. Yes, I took fotos too the fantastic Bleduk Kuwu (Please see picture below). Really it is a miraculous "plain salt mud vulcano", that even you could come near to around 20 meters from the "natural salt bomb"...

Originally Posted by Boedhi Adhitya

Mas Ganja, I should take my hat off for your effort Perhaps you should go to Balai Arkeologi Jogjakarta (while hunting for some kerises, ). Reading an inscription isn't an easy job. By the way, have you seen the (not so) newly open gold room in National Museum ? It has some beautiful keris collections. The unsheated 'Si Ginje' is exhibited, amongs other. Harsrinuksmo falsely mentioned it as having dhapur Singa barong, as I recall.

I have thought so. I was willing to ask gentlemen there, in Balai Arkaeologi (Prambanan) about that "Grabag" inscription. Not hunting keris anymore, Mas Boed. Daily life needs are more important for this time being...

Yes, I have seen some very good displays of original Bone kerises, Sulawesi kerises, Kalimantan and Java kerises, and also two beautiful keris panjang, Also ... Si Ginje. (I will post in other thread). The new (four stories) museum beside the old one is more "thematique". Some good old forms of kerises are also exhibited there..

Ganjawulung

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Boedhi Adhitya

Many of the Javanese's traditional histories/legends, especially those from Babads, were 'engineered' to support the court's legitimacy. But with use of care, some real historical evidence could be 'extracted'. The Medang Kamulan, according to Denys Lombard (once again) who quoted the Chinese source/report, was situated near the 'natural salt source'. As there is only one 'natural salt source' exists in Java, Lombard proposed that Medang Kamulan was situated near 'Bledug Kuwu', Grobogan, Central Java.

http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bledug_Kuwu

Hai, nice to see you again "Britt-man" (this gentleman is studying in England since November). Your views are very valuable, mas Boed. Thanks for reminding on Lombard... Yes, coincidentally I went to Grobogan (Purwodadi) and Blora for more than one week two months ago, to make a simple documentation on folk arts there. On "Mancanegara" (far outside of central palaces in Solo and Jogja) folk arts... (Please see, my foto below on Bleduk Kuwu). It is really a miraculous "salt mud volcano". You could even come to around 20 meters from the "natural salt bomb" of Kuwu...
[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Boedhi Adhitya

Mas Ganja, I should take my hat off for your effort Perhaps you should go to Balai Arkeologi Jogjakarta (while hunting for some kerises, ). Reading an inscription isn't an easy job. By the way, have you seen the (not so) newly open gold room in National Museum ? It has some beautiful keris collections. The unsheated 'Si Ginje' is exhibited, amongs other. Harsrinuksmo falsely mentioned it as having dhapur Singa barong, as I recall.

Thank you for the recomendation. I was just thinking of asking the Balai Arkeologi in Prambanan, maybe in the next two weeks, hopefully. But, no keris hunting for the time being. Daily needs are more urgent...

The new four stories National Museum in Merdeka Barat Jakarta, is just beside the old one. The stones displays are still in the old place, but the more "thematique" displays are exhibited in the new one. Yes, I will post the "Si Ginje" in another thread. Really nice "Ki Nom style" Si Ginje. A very valuable gift from Java to the ruler of Sumatera in the past...

Ganjawulung

[A. G. Maisey]

Here's a pic of Si Ginjei.

Si Ginjei was a part of an exhibition of Islamic Art held at the National Gallery of Australia a little while back.

Pak Ganja, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Si Ginjei attributed to Ki Nom, not just in the style of Ki Nom? I've read this somewhere, I'll try to find the reference.

[A. G. Maisey]

Pak Boedhi, land grants to favoured court retainers also occurred during Majapahit. These grants were normally made as a reward for important services rendered, and had the effect of raising the status of the grantee to that of the landed gentry.

There were the Buddhist domains, the dharmas, there were domains that were held by the Brahmins, there were the domains of the landed gentry(akuwu) and there were domains held by powerful people of the court as a result of grants from the ruler. For instance, Gajahmada was granted an area of land that was probably located near present day Malang. Nala, the commander in chief after Gajahmada's death was also granted land.

This practice causes one think, as it is known that the power of the old Javanese rulers was a power over people, not a power over land, so we need to consider carefully exactly what the royal title over land constituted. It could be that the ruler in fact had no title over the land, but did have the right to administer the land. I'm a bit unclear on this.

In any case, it seems it was an ancient practice, and could perhaps even go back to the early classical period.

"wsi-wsi prakara" in Old Javanese carries the sense of "types of iron". "Prakara" means "macam" or "jenis". We do not have the full inscription, but it probably read something like (freely) "various types of iron things, small axes, big axes,adzes---etc, etc---".

I agree with what you say about being able to use the babads as historic sources---with care. This has been shown over and over again. However, the operative word is care. For instance, Prapanca had China and India paying tribute to the ruler of Majapahit.

In the case of Medang Kamulan, we have a plethora of myths centered around this wonderful kingdom. If Medang Kamulan appears in a badad, it is simply a case of the migration of myth into literature. In this case we can probably discount the Chinese sources as any proof of existence, because of variation in era, and because the Chinese were reporting only what they were told, it was not a case of the Chinese going and seeing this place and noting its position, it would be the recording of transmitted information. I don't know exactly what Chinese documents this might be in, but I can probably find it, I'll have a look and see if we can find out exactly what is written.

Regarding Balai Arkeologi in Prambanan, I have approached these people several times, probably the most recent time might have been 6 or 7 years ago, and I found them very helpful. If you go there Pak Ganja, I'll be very surprised if they are not prepared to assist you.

Good to see you back Pak Boedhi. I thought you'd got lost in Darkest Africa.

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

.... correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Si Ginjei attributed to Ki Nom, not just in the style of Ki Nom? I've read this somewhere, I'll try to find the reference.

Pak Alan,

Sultan Hanyakrakusumo sent 2 (beautiful and powerful) kerises for local king during expedition to Jambi for building of strategic partnership. By these two kerises, Sultan Jambi became more powerful and legitimate.

Perhaps, if you can find de graf's books, he wrote about Mataram-Jambi.

Regards,
OeSmen

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks Oesmen.

Yes, I'm aware of the keris which were sent from Mataram. There were other gifts, including keris , sent to South Sumatera from other Central Javanese rulers, also. It seems that there has been a continuing contact between Central Jawa and South Sumatera over an extended time.

But, be that as it may, it doesn't effect the Si Ginjei question either one way or the other:- we still do not know the maker, but we can accept the attribution. In fact, it would be unusual for a maker to have his name attached to a piece of his making, in thought at that time, it was the ruler who was making the keris, the empu was simply the tool of the ruler.

[Boedhi Adhitya]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Pak Boedhi, land grants to favoured court retainers also occurred during Majapahit. These grants were normally made as a reward for important services rendered, and had the effect of raising the status of the grantee to that of the landed gentry.

Yes, absolutely, Pak Alan. What I meant with 'It might be already in used since Demak/Pajang era' was the 'Perdikan' terminology, vis-a-vis to Sima terminology. It is worth to note that besides 'perdikan', the free-tax land, there was also the 'lungguh', land granted to royal families/officials for their income. There were no salary system as known today. The lungguh, obviously, including all the peasants who stayed there. The peasants were burdened with compulsory work, conscription, and of course, some part of their harvests as taxes. No money needed in this system. No wonder kerises and spears/tombak scattered all over the Javanese villages (compared to, for example, Japanese's Katana). While you could borrow a plow from your neightbour, you could not borrow a keris or tombak when consciption announced This is, certainly, from the 'functional' point of view.

In the Islamic Mataram era, the land divided into several categories : Nagari, was the capital, obviously belongs to the king, the Negaragung, the immediate surroundings around the Negari, also belongs to the king, the Narawita Dalem, the land of king which granted to the royal families or officials as 'lungguh', and Mancanegara, the farthest land, mostly with great autonomy.

Originally Posted by A.G. Maisey

Good to see you back Pak Boedhi. I thought you'd got lost in Darkest Africa.

Thank you, Pak Alan. I thought you didn't quite happy to see me back, as I gave you more troubles than solutions

oh, well, my post seems to drift away from the topic... sorry..

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, as you describe it Pak Oesmen.

If you consider this system I believe that you may identify one of the causes of some of Indonesia's difficulties in the modern world.

What problems did you ever cause me Pak Oesmen?

I can recall none.

I can recall that you are knowledgeable and well mannered, but I can recall nothing negative concerning you.