Yemeni Jambiya for restoration....but is it worth it?

katana · 26th October 2007, 02:13 PM

Dagger received today.......very disappointing

The Rhino / amber is in fact resin/plastic it has a grainy, marbled effect but was confirmed by the 'hot pin' test.

The blade.....is composed of two metal sheets

The 'patination' of the blade surface really looks convincing, I think, that perhaps the steel has a quantity of re-cycled metal of differing grades which adds to the illusion.

The 'silver' banding on the hilt (just before the blade) has partially loosened and I can see printed wording on the reverse side, looks like a section of a tin can coated with some dull, silvery material on the 'facing side'.

Who said "the camera never lies....."

Its a real shame (sham

), I was really looking forward to restoring this knife and scabbard ..... with no redeeming features it would be a complete waste of time and effort.

Hopefully, other formites will 'learn' from my mistake...

Never mind....... nothing ventured....nothing gained

Regards David

Battara · 26th October 2007, 06:46 PM

I'm so sorry you got screwed.

This happened to me in receiving a "yemeni jambiya". Was not pleased.

spiral · 26th October 2007, 06:56 PM

Thats a shame, Id have taken a chance on it as well if it was cheap...

Lots of them have plastic handles. Including most that are sold as amber.....

Buffalo horn is a lot more common than rhino as well.

Spiral

Tim Simmons · 26th October 2007, 07:22 PM

Amber is resin, a hot pin will sink into it. Amber is affected by perfume or alcohol but do not think plastic is, well not to the same extent. By and large I feel these really are not worth going after unless you can handle them. I also speak from experience. I think in all the years collesting I have only seen three or four worth anything near the money asked.

fernando · 26th October 2007, 07:39 PM

I am so sorry David.
I wish for you that it wouldn't have happened.
I dye a little when it happens to me.
Can't you stuff it back?
Fernando

katana · 26th October 2007, 07:56 PM

Thank you for your replies,
This was a very cheap purchase (the seller has kindly offered to refund half the money ) and I have learned valuable lessons which will help me prevent more costly mistakes

......hopefully

The fumes from the hot pin test smelt 'plasticky' .....I would imagine that amber would give off a more aromatic aroma

Kind Regards David

Michael Blalock · 26th October 2007, 10:40 PM

Just because it's a cheap jambiya doesn't mean it is not a genuine ethnographic item. The population of Yemen was 7 million in the 60's and has grown to 22 million today. Every man wears one. That's several million jambiyas. They are like ties for Westeners and once you get out of the wealthy antique class, most impoverished Yemeni men(who make up the majority of the population) want a nice new shiny one. So, there are millions of them floating around.
Bakelite amber has been around since the 1800's. I have never heard of genuine amber (fossilized tree sap) in a jambiya handle anyway. A piece real amber that size would be worth a lot of money compared to the going rate for a jambiya.
Also, the majority of the blades are made with two layers of sheet metal, they are for looks, not use and this makes them lighter to wear all day. I used to watch them made in the souq. The maker would hammer out the two sides, braze the halves together and then burnish the welds.

Antique jambiyas of any quality are very rare nowadays and new ones are made to imitate the older jambiyas, even for the locals to buy.

katana · 26th October 2007, 11:09 PM

Thank you Micheal for putting this Jambiya into a social context, I imagined that ...because of the knife's cultural significance, (I believed) that many would be passed down through the generations. The population 'explosion' that you mentioned would certainly explain the demand...and lack of 'heirloom' Jambiya's.

The bakerlite amber, which I am assuming is the material this Jambiya's hilt is made, is quite convincing, it has a 'grainy' structure with varying translucence and is not unattractive.

Regards David

fernando · 26th October 2007, 11:17 PM

Interesting input, Michael
One often reads that blades made in two halves are tourist junk.
Also that rhino horn in the hilts is the real thing.
May i show ( again) my specimen, all in ( coin? ) silver, with an entire blade.
The silver work seems to have been made by Jew smiths, as it has a "concealed" mark supposedly in Temani ( Yemeny hebrew ).
I have read somewhere that Jew smiths were the best for the silver work, but they were not allowed to make blades.
I ignore the real age of this piece, but i guess (hope) it is XIX century.
Sorry to have hijacked your thread, David.
Fernando

26th October 2007, 11:17 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Interesting input, Michael One often reads that blades made in two halves are tourist junk. Also that rhino horn in the hilts is the real thing. May i show ( again) my specimen, all in ( coin? ) silver, with an entire blade. The silver work seems to have been made by Jew smiths, as it has a "concealed" mark supposedly in Temani ( Yemeny hebrew ). I have read somewhere that Jew smiths were the best for the silver work, but they were not allowed to make blades. I ignore the real age of this piece, but i guess (hope) it is XIX century. Sorry to have hijacked your thread, David. Fernando Attached Images

26th October 2007, 02:13 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Dagger received today.......very disappointing The Rhino / amber is in fact resin/plastic it has a grainy, marbled effect but was confirmed by the 'hot pin' test. The blade.....is composed of two metal sheets The 'patination' of the blade surface really looks convincing, I think, that perhaps the steel has a quantity of re-cycled metal of differing grades which adds to the illusion. The 'silver' banding on the hilt (just before the blade) has partially loosened and I can see printed wording on the reverse side, looks like a section of a tin can coated with some dull, silvery material on the 'facing side'. Who said "the camera never lies....." Its a real shame (sham ), I was really looking forward to restoring this knife and scabbard ..... with no redeeming features it would be a complete waste of time and effort. Hopefully, other formites will 'learn' from my mistake... Never mind....... nothing ventured....nothing gained Regards David

26th October 2007, 06:46 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,339	I'm so sorry you got screwed. This happened to me in receiving a "yemeni jambiya". Was not pleased.

26th October 2007, 06:56 PM	#3
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Thats a shame, Id have taken a chance on it as well if it was cheap... Lots of them have plastic handles. Including most that are sold as amber..... Buffalo horn is a lot more common than rhino as well. Spiral

26th October 2007, 07:22 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,895	Amber is resin, a hot pin will sink into it. Amber is affected by perfume or alcohol but do not think plastic is, well not to the same extent. By and large I feel these really are not worth going after unless you can handle them. I also speak from experience. I think in all the years collesting I have only seen three or four worth anything near the money asked.

26th October 2007, 07:39 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I am so sorry David. I wish for you that it wouldn't have happened. I dye a little when it happens to me. Can't you stuff it back? Fernando

26th October 2007, 07:56 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thank you for your replies, This was a very cheap purchase (the seller has kindly offered to refund half the money ) and I have learned valuable lessons which will help me prevent more costly mistakes ......hopefully The fumes from the hot pin test smelt 'plasticky' .....I would imagine that amber would give off a more aromatic aroma Kind Regards David

26th October 2007, 10:40 PM	#7
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	Just because it's a cheap jambiya doesn't mean it is not a genuine ethnographic item. The population of Yemen was 7 million in the 60's and has grown to 22 million today. Every man wears one. That's several million jambiyas. They are like ties for Westeners and once you get out of the wealthy antique class, most impoverished Yemeni men(who make up the majority of the population) want a nice new shiny one. So, there are millions of them floating around. Bakelite amber has been around since the 1800's. I have never heard of genuine amber (fossilized tree sap) in a jambiya handle anyway. A piece real amber that size would be worth a lot of money compared to the going rate for a jambiya. Also, the majority of the blades are made with two layers of sheet metal, they are for looks, not use and this makes them lighter to wear all day. I used to watch them made in the souq. The maker would hammer out the two sides, braze the halves together and then burnish the welds. Antique jambiyas of any quality are very rare nowadays and new ones are made to imitate the older jambiyas, even for the locals to buy.

26th October 2007, 11:09 PM	#8
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thank you Micheal for putting this Jambiya into a social context, I imagined that ...because of the knife's cultural significance, (I believed) that many would be passed down through the generations. The population 'explosion' that you mentioned would certainly explain the demand...and lack of 'heirloom' Jambiya's. The bakerlite amber, which I am assuming is the material this Jambiya's hilt is made, is quite convincing, it has a 'grainy' structure with varying translucence and is not unattractive. Regards David