Nice East African club,

katana · 24th October 2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

... or as memaw would say ''y'all could poke summons eye out wif that thang''.

Summons or Simmons ??? only joking Tim

Kronckew's point about the quality of the binding is very relavent....but why is it there? It doesn't help re-inforce the head/shaft 'junction'

Seeing the examples of kujerung and their description in Stones I think the craftsmanship of yours is superior. The binding seems to have no functional use (with a throwing club) and the sharp taper would make it more difficult to throw with maximum force and accuracy.

A short club held to allow the 'point' to protrude makes sense, a club/stabber

The binding acting as a grip when used as a stabbing implement.

Tim Simmons · 24th October 2007, 07:26 PM

It is African or Aus. The rings are described as hide. Would hide be used traditionally in Aus, prior to white invasion the biggest animal would have been a kangaroo? Do you get think hide from kangaroo? I would think there skin was more fine like dear or sheep. Hide used like this makes me think of cattle. Do the Masai and others keep cattle? Perhape the rings help the polished wood club stay in your belt.

Tim Simmons · 26th October 2007, 05:40 PM

The seller is a true gentleman and sent the item on a uncleared cheque so I have it now. I have bought from him before.
Well it is fantastic, a beauty. I know it is not to many members taste but it is a real old piece from East Africa. The best club I have. The pointed end is not unusual, one just has to think of Dinka clubs with the more mushroom head clubs with a pointed end. Thick rings of hide probably cut from the tail. Much darker than the digital image {I am dissapointed with the colour response of my camera, it is quite old nowadays} I show it next to a couple of knobkerrie so you can understand it a little better, it is heavier than the knobkerries.

katana · 26th October 2007, 06:42 PM

Interestingly I have been researching Shilluk clubs ((because of this thread)whom were in constant conflict with the Dinka, their short shafts tend to be pointed. I would expect that this feature was shared with the Dinka and neighbouring tribes
However Spring mentions that the point was to accommodate a socketted iron spike (like a spear butt)to use as a stabbing weapon and also allows the shaft to be pushed into the ground so as to use the club as stool (shooting stick)

Many short handled clubs tend to have a slightly flared butt, even those with a tapering shaft. I have also noticed nearly ALL (that I have seen) short clubs made from Rhino horn have pointed shafts....I can only assume that this is because...
1. the hardness of the material makes the point ideal for stabbing
2. The inherent 'grip' qualities of Rhino may not need a flared butt to aid the grip of the user

David

Tim Simmons · 26th October 2007, 08:55 PM

I do not think every Dinka club has the matal spike. If you search the Pitt Rivers Southern Soudan project site other clubs can be seen with the pointed end. This club is wood.

Tim Simmons · 27th October 2007, 06:30 PM

This is the best form match I have found. Price on request usually means to me- forget it sonny!
http://www.jacarandatribal.com/produ...&categoryId=12

Lew · 27th October 2007, 08:39 PM

Tim

Here is one from my small collection of clubs spike end but round head.

Lew

kai · 27th October 2007, 11:15 PM

Hello David, Tim, et al.,

Quote:

why is it there? It doesn't help re-inforce the head/shaft 'junction'

The binding acting as a grip when used as a stabbing implement.

Not only stabbing: An alternative use of a club is to hold it near the rootball and use it like a stick; literally adds weight to a punch or other uses, too.

Are there any colonial records on the use of these clubs?

Regards,
Kai

Tim Simmons · 28th October 2007, 05:07 PM

Or half informed guess. I am not a stick fighter but I have done some sabre practice. Many moves cover a multitude of weapons to some degree. Apart from using this club to gain a fore arms length and full power to the distal end, perhaps the hide rings work as a stop so in the peak of aggression even more close work can be made by letting the weapon descend to the postion shown. Right up close, in this postion the weapon is still usable as a cosh and you can pick with the spike.

26th October 2007, 05:40 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	surprise The seller is a true gentleman and sent the item on a uncleared cheque so I have it now. I have bought from him before. Well it is fantastic, a beauty. I know it is not to many members taste but it is a real old piece from East Africa. The best club I have. The pointed end is not unusual, one just has to think of Dinka clubs with the more mushroom head clubs with a pointed end. Thick rings of hide probably cut from the tail. Much darker than the digital image {I am dissapointed with the colour response of my camera, it is quite old nowadays} I show it next to a couple of knobkerrie so you can understand it a little better, it is heavier than the knobkerries.

27th October 2007, 08:39 PM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Tim Here is one from my small collection of clubs spike end but round head. Lew Attached Images

28th October 2007, 05:07 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Speculation Or half informed guess. I am not a stick fighter but I have done some sabre practice. Many moves cover a multitude of weapons to some degree. Apart from using this club to gain a fore arms length and full power to the distal end, perhaps the hide rings work as a stop so in the peak of aggression even more close work can be made by letting the weapon descend to the postion shown. Right up close, in this postion the weapon is still usable as a cosh and you can pick with the spike.

24th October 2007, 07:26 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	It is African or Aus. The rings are described as hide. Would hide be used traditionally in Aus, prior to white invasion the biggest animal would have been a kangaroo? Do you get think hide from kangaroo? I would think there skin was more fine like dear or sheep. Hide used like this makes me think of cattle. Do the Masai and others keep cattle? Perhape the rings help the polished wood club stay in your belt.

26th October 2007, 06:42 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Interestingly I have been researching Shilluk clubs ((because of this thread)whom were in constant conflict with the Dinka, their short shafts tend to be pointed. I would expect that this feature was shared with the Dinka and neighbouring tribes However Spring mentions that the point was to accommodate a socketted iron spike (like a spear butt)to use as a stabbing weapon and also allows the shaft to be pushed into the ground so as to use the club as stool (shooting stick) Many short handled clubs tend to have a slightly flared butt, even those with a tapering shaft. I have also noticed nearly ALL (that I have seen) short clubs made from Rhino horn have pointed shafts....I can only assume that this is because... 1. the hardness of the material makes the point ideal for stabbing 2. The inherent 'grip' qualities of Rhino may not need a flared butt to aid the grip of the user David

26th October 2007, 08:55 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	I do not think every Dinka club has the matal spike. If you search the Pitt Rivers Southern Soudan project site other clubs can be seen with the pointed end. This club is wood.

27th October 2007, 06:30 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	This is the best form match I have found. Price on request usually means to me- forget it sonny! http://www.jacarandatribal.com/produ...&categoryId=12