Nice East African club,

[kronckew]

after doing a bit of enhancing myself, i'm beginning to revise my original feelings, while i've seen narrow diameter wood fids which were not very tapered (see earlier examples) most have been steel, and the ones with fancy knot work have been similar to the steel examples given. most ships i've sailed on had steel wire rope rigging (and appropriate steel marlinspikes/fids), but miles of nice whitewashed fancy work on the handrails, especially on the quarterdeck. gives the deckies something to do out at sea. they'd generally use the smaller metal ones, tho the boatswain's locker would generally have an assortment.

as the material of tim's is only noted as being 'heavy' can we assume it is in reference to a dense wood of the order of lignum vitae rather than being of steel? even the enhanced photo shows no grain or woodiness which can be seen in even the smaller examples, but lignum vitae can also look like that. as an engineer officer i've seen a lot of lignum vitae, it was used for bearing surfaces in stern tubes which allowed the propeller shaft to penetrate the ship's side without flooding the ship as it was diminsionally stable even after soaking in sea water and very strong. a slight trickle of water was allowed to cool and lube the shaft which was collected in the bilge and pumped out. cleaning the sumps back there at the end of shaft alley was always a fun job assigned to someone on punishment. anyway, after years and decades of soaking in salt water, it was very dark, dense and hard as any wood i've ever seen, almost like micarta. i wish i'd had a few strips of it for knife handles.



anyway, the enhanced view of the handle binding, if accurate, is not of the same order of skill as would be required by any bo'sun i've ever known. while i'd expect a wooden fid's working end to be a bit rougher, working on small stuff on a ship would normaly be done with a smaller spike than 59cm.

finally, i am now thinking war/hunting club with nice pointy end, or as memaw would say ''y'all could poke summons eye out wif that thang''.

[Jim McDougall]

As someone without a bit of sea salt in me (but my wife always yells at me for using too much salt!!) .....I have really enjoyed this thread and learned a lot on these seagoing items!
Thanks so much for the fascinating discussion guys!! If I may say so, really good 'research legs' (cf. sea legs!).

It does seem like in some of the really salty old classic movies I've seen guys get 'bonked' (probably not very good sea lingo) with these in some of the onboard scraps.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

As someone without a bit of sea salt in me (but my wife always yells at me for using too much salt!!) .....I have really enjoyed this thread and learned a lot on these seagoing items!
Thanks so much for the fascinating discussion guys!! If I may say so, really good 'research legs' (cf. sea legs!).

It does seem like in some of the really salty old classic movies I've seen guys get 'bonked' (probably not very good sea lingo) with these in some of the onboard scraps.

listen to your wife, too much salt is bad for you, jim. the thing they normally apply vigorously to the cranium of intended salty targets would normally be a belaying pin. A belaying pin is a device used on traditional sailing vessels to secure lines. Their function on modern vessels has been replaced by cleats.




bonking is a term normally reserved for a more horizontal and pleasant activity.

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks Kronkew! Thats the term I was thinking of...belaying! Oops!
If I was onboard a ship I probably would have been thrown overboard by now!
Good one on the 'bonking' ! That 'really' would have been a blooper on board!

[kronckew]

i think the term is more UK than US useage, unless you've seen the austin powers film. as a slight diversion here's a english-american dictionary english-american dictionary

[katana]

Originally Posted by kronckew

... or as memaw would say ''y'all could poke summons eye out wif that thang''.

Summons or Simmons ??? only joking Tim

Kronckew's point about the quality of the binding is very relavent....but why is it there? It doesn't help re-inforce the head/shaft 'junction'

Seeing the examples of kujerung and their description in Stones I think the craftsmanship of yours is superior. The binding seems to have no functional use (with a throwing club) and the sharp taper would make it more difficult to throw with maximum force and accuracy.

A short club held to allow the 'point' to protrude makes sense, a club/stabber The binding acting as a grip when used as a stabbing implement.

[Tim Simmons]

It is African or Aus. The rings are described as hide. Would hide be used traditionally in Aus, prior to white invasion the biggest animal would have been a kangaroo? Do you get think hide from kangaroo? I would think there skin was more fine like dear or sheep. Hide used like this makes me think of cattle. Do the Masai and others keep cattle? Perhape the rings help the polished wood club stay in your belt.

[Tim Simmons]

The seller is a true gentleman and sent the item on a uncleared cheque so I have it now. I have bought from him before.
Well it is fantastic, a beauty. I know it is not to many members taste but it is a real old piece from East Africa. The best club I have. The pointed end is not unusual, one just has to think of Dinka clubs with the more mushroom head clubs with a pointed end. Thick rings of hide probably cut from the tail. Much darker than the digital image {I am dissapointed with the colour response of my camera, it is quite old nowadays} I show it next to a couple of knobkerrie so you can understand it a little better, it is heavier than the knobkerries.

[katana]

Interestingly I have been researching Shilluk clubs ((because of this thread)whom were in constant conflict with the Dinka, their short shafts tend to be pointed. I would expect that this feature was shared with the Dinka and neighbouring tribes
However Spring mentions that the point was to accommodate a socketted iron spike (like a spear butt)to use as a stabbing weapon and also allows the shaft to be pushed into the ground so as to use the club as stool (shooting stick)

Many short handled clubs tend to have a slightly flared butt, even those with a tapering shaft. I have also noticed nearly ALL (that I have seen) short clubs made from Rhino horn have pointed shafts....I can only assume that this is because...
1. the hardness of the material makes the point ideal for stabbing
2. The inherent 'grip' qualities of Rhino may not need a flared butt to aid the grip of the user

David

[Tim Simmons]

I do not think every Dinka club has the matal spike. If you search the Pitt Rivers Southern Soudan project site other clubs can be seen with the pointed end. This club is wood.

[Tim Simmons]

This is the best form match I have found. Price on request usually means to me- forget it sonny!
http://www.jacarandatribal.com/produ...&categoryId=12

[kai]

Hello David, Tim, et al.,

why is it there? It doesn't help re-inforce the head/shaft 'junction'
The binding acting as a grip when used as a stabbing implement.

Not only stabbing: An alternative use of a club is to hold it near the rootball and use it like a stick; literally adds weight to a punch or other uses, too.

Are there any colonial records on the use of these clubs?

Regards,
Kai

[Tim Simmons]

Or half informed guess. I am not a stick fighter but I have done some sabre practice. Many moves cover a multitude of weapons to some degree. Apart from using this club to gain a fore arms length and full power to the distal end, perhaps the hide rings work as a stop so in the peak of aggression even more close work can be made by letting the weapon descend to the postion shown. Right up close, in this postion the weapon is still usable as a cosh and you can pick with the spike.