A Unique Kattar?

[Jens Nordlunde]

Ward, you have a very nice katar hilt, is it possible that you can show it without a shine?
Rand, do you think the hilt and blade of the katar shown by Tom are of the same age - I don't.
Attached is a tabjore hilt.

[ward]

that was a preety awful pic shows what happens when you do things in a hurry

[ward]

Here is a different style. If i can get time I will take some more pics of different styles of katars

[rand]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Ward, you have a very nice katar hilt, is it possible that you can show it without a shine?
Rand, do you think the hilt and blade of the katar shown by Tom are of the same age - I don't.
Attached is a tabjore hilt.

Hey Jens,

The work on the hilt of Toms jamadhar is more inline with craftsmanship earlier than the blade, both in execution and design. My gut feeling is the blade is 19th C. and the hilt 17-18th C.

Where as on Wards jamadhar the edges of the leaves are done the same, the center of the leaves are also hollowed the same, the decoration on leaves also matches on the hilt and connecting flanges

rand

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hey Rand,

Yes I agree, the hilt is quite a bit older than the blade. Its an interesting katar, I wish I could examine it, hands on.

Ward, thank you very much for the new pictures, you have a lovely katar. How old do you estimate it to be? Is there any indication from where the blade is, other than from a sword?

Maybe a new thread should be started with south Indian katars, so we don’t drown Tom’s thread with other katars.

[Tomb22]

Gentlemen:
Thank you for your input and consideration. It is most enlightening.

I love the pictures that you provided for comparison and demonstration. All of them very interesting and beautiful. Jens, the one with the tabjore hilt is exquisite. Regarding another thread, it is up to you guys as to what you think is best for the forum. As far as I am personally concerned, I don't mind at all the various pictures and discussion.

Based on Rand and Jen's thoughts about age of the hilt and blade and then looking at it up close, it does seem like two different times. The Tiger/deer seems a little finer drawn compared to the chisel of the hilt. Also, the dark background of the Tiger seems to be not only much more shallow than the hilt but also a different texture.

I am attaching a couple more pictures of the riveted flange area to try and show the rivets from a more horizontal perspective and a few others.

Concerning the piercings, it seems like they are a little different than the piercings on Ward's piece?? His and some of the others seem to be somewhat decorative. Mine doesn't seem decorative to me.

Here is my thought/question: Since the hilt appears to be chiseled, is it possible that the piercing is to facilitate the chiseling? What comes to mind is when someone is quarrying rock of some sort. They to drill holes and either put in explosives or water (to freeze and expand) to help break off the rock. Under this scenario, I was wondering if the piercing helped to make it easier to break of the metal?? Some of the piercings do not "pierce." They don't go all the way through.

[Tomb22]

Here are a couple more pictures. I added a few more of blade. I have seen in other posts concerning cleaning the blade to get the rust, dirt etc off. Do you have any suggestions? I know that I probably shouldn't do anything to the koftgari?? If I clean the blade, does that affect its value? Is there something that can be put on it to protect it? Both the koftgari and the blade.

In a previous post, Jim suggested maybe the age from the Tipu Sultan era? That was exciting to think about but, how does the two different ages play into that? And, whether or not, Tipu Sultan -from almost everyone's comments, it certainly seems to be a ceremonial/court weapon.

Again, I appreciate your interest and comments.

Best Regards
Tom

[Robert]

I have seen and used small holes like this to help secure enamel on jewelry. Maybe this piece was enameled at one time? I might also suggest that if there is a pattern to the holes that go all the way through that they may at one time have had gold or silver pins in them also another way to help secure enameling.

Robert

[Tomb22]

Hi Robert,
Thanks for the input. Someone else mentioned using the holes to secure silver. Being such a neophyte, I have to ask the question. How does it work for the holes to secure the enamel? Is it some sort of "glue?" or something mechanical?

Whew, so much to learn but, so much fun for an information junkie like me.
Regards
Tom

[Jens Nordlunde]

Tom, thanks for the very good pictures. I now see what you mean about the little holes, but to my opinion they are there for decoration. Have a look at the hilt, it is worn, but by soft hands – how many years do you think this would have taken?

Have a look at the langet, it is even worn more, but this time from a wooden scabbard. Then have a look at the decoration of the blade, why would this decoration not have been worn from the in and out of the wooden scabbard? It should have been, but it is not, on the contrary it seems to be rather crisp. So like Rand suggests, have a look under the langet, you may find the answer there.

Once again, I agree with Rand, the hilt is older than the blade.

I would, but let me stress, that this is my opinion, clean the holes - carefully.

[Marius66]

Thank's a lot for the precious comments Jim !!

I read about the chakra disc or cobra sword usually of good quality and associated to high rang persons.

I finally i receive it, here some pictures with close up,
I don't see any pattern but maybe something with the close pictures, crucible steel or just a classic steel structure ??

The hilt looks line the old Tanjore models and is riveted to the blade,
Can it be a genuine 17th century exemple even the blade ?
Or later assembled parts ??

[Marius66]

17th with this similar katar said to be from northern India and dating from the 17th century in post #15

[Marius66]

Hello? This one 17th too 👍
( without chakra disk )