A Unique Kattar?

Tomb22 · 12th October 2007, 01:57 AM

Hmm, those came out better than I thought. As you can see in the part of the hilt that is riveted. There are pin holes there too. Also, it appears that piece might have been "soldered" or something to attach to the curved bottom transverse piece where the 2 protective bars are attached. If you notice there is a touch of separation at the edges.

Here are some more pictures. I hope that they are helpful to you. If you would like something more specific - please let me know and I will try and accomodate you. In this set, you can see the other side of the blade where the Tiger has its prey in its teeth. I will do one more set of a few blade pictures. As noted before, there doesn't seem to be an wootz on this blade.

Kind regards.
Tom

Tomb22 · 12th October 2007, 02:02 AM

Here are the few blade pictures.
Regards
Tom

Jens Nordlunde · 14th October 2007, 04:51 PM

Here is a sword with the 'cobra' form of blade.

ward · 14th October 2007, 05:24 PM

here is another example of pierced work

rand · 14th October 2007, 06:00 PM

Observations of Toms Jamadhar:

The two flanges that extend from the handle of the jamadhar holding the blade between them attached with a riveting technique apear to have pierce work as do the sides of the handle. Looks as is it is mostly filled with an accumulation of dust, dirt and small debris.

The application of the gold overlay is a technique called koftgari where the metal is first cross hatched with a fine pointed tool called a "cherma", then overlaid with a gold wire that is tapped in place with a small hammer and punch, then it is exposed to a moderate heat after which it is polished with an agate rubber "Mohari" and cleaned with lime juice.

The design on the handle has a circular vegetal motif with circular shaped flowers with all leafs attached to a vine, the design on the blade has an open cartouche shape with open fan shaped flowers with some leafs seperate. Both have similar quality of koftgari work.

The quality of the chiseled line on the tiger, deer

The rivets are still hard to study from the photo's, but the appear to stand in higher relief than adjacent metal.

Summing up the above it suggests one craftman for the work on blade and one for the handle. This would be inline with most arms as there would have been a miner for ore, smelter, forger, blade maker, blade polisher, hilt maker, hilt and or blade art fabricater, scabbard maker.

Unable to find my reference as to defintion of koftgari but belive it to mean, " the beating of gold (koft)by a craftsman(gari)"

The above is only theory based on opinion and should be weighed against other viewpoints.

rand

Jens Nordlunde · 14th October 2007, 09:30 PM

Ward, you have a very nice katar hilt, is it possible that you can show it without a shine?
Rand, do you think the hilt and blade of the katar shown by Tom are of the same age - I don't.
Attached is a tabjore hilt.

ward · 14th October 2007, 10:05 PM

that was a preety awful pic shows what happens when you do things in a hurry

ward · 14th October 2007, 10:13 PM

Here is a different style. If i can get time I will take some more pics of different styles of katars

rand · 14th October 2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Ward, you have a very nice katar hilt, is it possible that you can show it without a shine?
Rand, do you think the hilt and blade of the katar shown by Tom are of the same age - I don't.
Attached is a tabjore hilt.

Hey Jens,

The work on the hilt of Toms jamadhar is more inline with craftsmanship earlier than the blade, both in execution and design. My gut feeling is the blade is 19th C. and the hilt 17-18th C.

Where as on Wards jamadhar the edges of the leaves are done the same, the center of the leaves are also hollowed the same, the decoration on leaves also matches on the hilt and connecting flanges

rand

Jens Nordlunde · 15th October 2007, 12:29 PM

Hey Rand,

Yes I agree, the hilt is quite a bit older than the blade. Its an interesting katar, I wish I could examine it, hands on.

Ward, thank you very much for the new pictures, you have a lovely katar. How old do you estimate it to be? Is there any indication from where the blade is, other than from a sword?

Maybe a new thread should be started with south Indian katars, so we don’t drown Tom’s thread with other katars.

12th October 2007, 01:57 AM	#1
Tomb22 Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 17	Hmm, those came out better than I thought. As you can see in the part of the hilt that is riveted. There are pin holes there too. Also, it appears that piece might have been "soldered" or something to attach to the curved bottom transverse piece where the 2 protective bars are attached. If you notice there is a touch of separation at the edges. Here are some more pictures. I hope that they are helpful to you. If you would like something more specific - please let me know and I will try and accomodate you. In this set, you can see the other side of the blade where the Tiger has its prey in its teeth. I will do one more set of a few blade pictures. As noted before, there doesn't seem to be an wootz on this blade. Kind regards. Tom Attached Images

12th October 2007, 02:02 AM	#2
Tomb22 Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 17	Here are the few blade pictures. Regards Tom Attached Images

14th October 2007, 04:51 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Here is a sword with the 'cobra' form of blade. Attached Images

14th October 2007, 05:24 PM	#4
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	here is another example of pierced work Attached Images

14th October 2007, 06:00 PM	#5
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Observations of toms Jamadhar Observations of Toms Jamadhar: The two flanges that extend from the handle of the jamadhar holding the blade between them attached with a riveting technique apear to have pierce work as do the sides of the handle. Looks as is it is mostly filled with an accumulation of dust, dirt and small debris. The application of the gold overlay is a technique called koftgari where the metal is first cross hatched with a fine pointed tool called a "cherma", then overlaid with a gold wire that is tapped in place with a small hammer and punch, then it is exposed to a moderate heat after which it is polished with an agate rubber "Mohari" and cleaned with lime juice. The design on the handle has a circular vegetal motif with circular shaped flowers with all leafs attached to a vine, the design on the blade has an open cartouche shape with open fan shaped flowers with some leafs seperate. Both have similar quality of koftgari work. The quality of the chiseled line on the tiger, deer The rivets are still hard to study from the photo's, but the appear to stand in higher relief than adjacent metal. Summing up the above it suggests one craftman for the work on blade and one for the handle. This would be inline with most arms as there would have been a miner for ore, smelter, forger, blade maker, blade polisher, hilt maker, hilt and or blade art fabricater, scabbard maker. Unable to find my reference as to defintion of koftgari but belive it to mean, " the beating of gold (koft)by a craftsman(gari)" The above is only theory based on opinion and should be weighed against other viewpoints. rand

14th October 2007, 09:30 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ward, you have a very nice katar hilt, is it possible that you can show it without a shine? Rand, do you think the hilt and blade of the katar shown by Tom are of the same age - I don't. Attached is a tabjore hilt. Attached Images

14th October 2007, 10:05 PM	#7
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	that was a preety awful pic shows what happens when you do things in a hurry Attached Images

14th October 2007, 10:13 PM	#8
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Here is a different style. If i can get time I will take some more pics of different styles of katars Attached Images

15th October 2007, 12:29 PM	#10
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hey Rand, Yes I agree, the hilt is quite a bit older than the blade. Its an interesting katar, I wish I could examine it, hands on. Ward, thank you very much for the new pictures, you have a lovely katar. How old do you estimate it to be? Is there any indication from where the blade is, other than from a sword? Maybe a new thread should be started with south Indian katars, so we don’t drown Tom’s thread with other katars.