Help Identify - Chinese execution sword?

yuanzhumin · 9th October 2007, 02:57 AM

After sending the previous post, I was having a last look when I saw the other pictures of the swords , the first ones, on top of the thread, where the brass device is better seen.
I think the last symbol is a bird, and I would go for the golden pheasant, representing literary refinement. The golden pheasant is also corresponding to a grade in the chinese Qing army, before the Republic.
One more thing I was thinking : If the brass device is from the Chinese Republic time, it could have been added on a older sword, dating from the 19th cent.
Yuanzhumin

yuanzhumin · 9th October 2007, 03:02 AM

Sorry, it's me once more, just to correct a little mistake. I wrote in the previous post "Qing army", but it should be read as " Qing administration ".
Yunazhumin

DaveA · 9th October 2007, 05:06 AM

yuanzhumin,

Your comments have been very helpful.

The silver pheasant is one of the symbols used in Mandarin squares (textile emblem on "official" dress) to denote an administrator of the 5th rank.

An idea: perhaps instead of the pheasant we have a phoenix (fenghuang), the yin equivalent of the dragon. Symbolizing peace and joy, it was commonly used as the mark of an empress in imperial China. (China's Cultural Heritage: The Qing Dynasty, 1644-1912 By Richard J. Smith)

I have not been able to find a Qing-era symbol for a pheasant or phoenix that resembles the one on this device.

However, I have found two pictures, one from aQing dynasty artifact and another from an antique which strongly resemble two symbols on the brass device; the bat and the deer.

This bat is detail from a Qing formal court robe:

This deer is from an antique jade pendant, possibly from China. (The identical figure also appears in a court robe but I neglected to copy that picture and now I'm having trouble finding the link.)

I think the bat and either the pheasant or phoenix reinforce the notion that this weapon played some role in the formal court or Qing administration.

Just some late night thoughts. I'm no expert, but I can Google with the best of 'em!

Regards,

Dave A.

9th October 2007, 05:06 AM	#3
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 415	Thank you for your thoughtful posts yuanzhumin, Your comments have been very helpful. The silver pheasant is one of the symbols used in Mandarin squares (textile emblem on "official" dress) to denote an administrator of the 5th rank. An idea: perhaps instead of the pheasant we have a phoenix (fenghuang), the yin equivalent of the dragon. Symbolizing peace and joy, it was commonly used as the mark of an empress in imperial China. (China's Cultural Heritage: The Qing Dynasty, 1644-1912 By Richard J. Smith) I have not been able to find a Qing-era symbol for a pheasant or phoenix that resembles the one on this device. However, I have found two pictures, one from aQing dynasty artifact and another from an antique which strongly resemble two symbols on the brass device; the bat and the deer. This bat is detail from a Qing formal court robe: This deer is from an antique jade pendant, possibly from China. (The identical figure also appears in a court robe but I neglected to copy that picture and now I'm having trouble finding the link.) I think the bat and either the pheasant or phoenix reinforce the notion that this weapon played some role in the formal court or Qing administration. Just some late night thoughts. I'm no expert, but I can Google with the best of 'em! Regards, Dave A.

9th October 2007, 02:57 AM	#1
yuanzhumin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China Posts: 180	After sending the previous post, I was having a last look when I saw the other pictures of the swords , the first ones, on top of the thread, where the brass device is better seen. I think the last symbol is a bird, and I would go for the golden pheasant, representing literary refinement. The golden pheasant is also corresponding to a grade in the chinese Qing army, before the Republic. One more thing I was thinking : If the brass device is from the Chinese Republic time, it could have been added on a older sword, dating from the 19th cent. Yuanzhumin

9th October 2007, 03:02 AM	#2
yuanzhumin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China Posts: 180	Sorry, it's me once more, just to correct a little mistake. I wrote in the previous post "Qing army", but it should be read as " Qing administration ". Yunazhumin