High Hopes, African Dahomey {razor?}

Tim Simmons · 4th October 2007, 07:52 PM

Jim I just do not know.

Having it in my hand and the wood, there is just something African to me. I have come down to earth a little and have abandoned the Razor Women weapon but not the general West African area. The constuction only appears similar to the knife I have shown with it. It is quite different in reality. The similarities are after all fairly universal, a stamp on a blade is not rare nor is the bolster on the item. Just to illustrate this I will post pics of a Nigerian knife. It would be fantastic if some of the Asian collectors could show me the error of my ways. It is a nasty little slashing weapon, it is light only just 250g. I just do not know for sure, need help from Asian collectors please. Could be Chinese?

Jim McDougall · 5th October 2007, 05:44 AM

Me too Tim

!
I wish I had the Marti article to look through, or even the Spring book which has some good examples. It really is a tough call sometimes, the blade with these crenallations seems atypical for Asian weapons to me, but the grip aside from the widening center, still recalls the dha. We really do need some help from the dha guys!

Tim Simmons · 5th October 2007, 10:34 AM

Only drawings so one has to assume great variety.

Tim Simmons · 5th October 2007, 12:01 PM

In the absents of Asian collectors opinions. I will just have to bravely soldier on, or is the silence telling?

I see the subtle shape to the handle as African and most of all the the loose and immediate ease of the triangle patterns on the copper also African. Perhaps Asian collectors can argue the same for Asian work. The handle is not as long as one would think.

Look at the wood. Is it Asian?

The Razor weapon may not be too much of a fantasy.

Jim McDougall · 5th October 2007, 03:41 PM

Excellent observations Tim, and very compelling. That wood seen along with the other items you show certainly seems strikingly similar, and as you suggest, quite African. Thank you so much for posting the Marti illustrations!
I could recall the very unusual shapes and presume the one with the barbs along the back triggered my thoughts on the crenallations on yours.

Another thing you mentioned, as well as your very well placed thoughts on the loose geometric pattern on the hilt mounts, is the fact that they are copper. Isnt copperwork in material items key in certain African regions? I think west African if not mistaken.

I doubt if the Asian collectors will read this unless we repost under another heading.

Tim Simmons · 5th October 2007, 03:42 PM

Apparently there is Asian ebony. Indian {Ceylon} and East indian ebony {Malaysia}
I have seen Indian chillum in a black wood. I do not think this is Indian or that wood. I am puzzled on this one. The decoration just seems African. I just see Asian decoration as tight, formal or floral, more schematic? does that make sense?

You could be right Jim. I will start a thread titled Asian Mak

Emanuel · 5th October 2007, 04:57 PM

Hi Tim, could this be a variant of Ram Dao or some sort of Naga Dao? The bolster looks very Nepalese to me.

Tim Simmons · 5th October 2007, 06:07 PM

I think you are right. Here-

http://www.trocadero.com/faganarms/i...tem424192.html

It is somewhat light and short in the blade when I think of the few I have handled. The one in the link does have all the aspect of the one I have except the price luckily. Possibly, I have done rather well even if it is not what I wanted

It was not what I expected

To be a child of Kali, Ramprasad asserts, is to be denied of earthly delights and pleasures. Kali is said to not give what is expected. To the devotee, it is perhaps her very refusal to do so that enables her devotees to reflect on dimensions of themselves and of reality that go beyond the material world.

Black for the black Goddess, see etymology-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coromandel_Ebony

5th October 2007, 10:34 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Spring, African Arms and Armour Uk version. Only drawings so one has to assume great variety.

5th October 2007, 06:07 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	I think you are right. Here- http://www.trocadero.com/faganarms/i...tem424192.html It is somewhat light and short in the blade when I think of the few I have handled. The one in the link does have all the aspect of the one I have except the price luckily. Possibly, I have done rather well even if it is not what I wanted It was not what I expected To be a child of Kali, Ramprasad asserts, is to be denied of earthly delights and pleasures. Kali is said to not give what is expected. To the devotee, it is perhaps her very refusal to do so that enables her devotees to reflect on dimensions of themselves and of reality that go beyond the material world. Black for the black Goddess, see etymology- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coromandel_Ebony Last edited by Tim Simmons; 5th October 2007 at 07:30 PM.

4th October 2007, 07:52 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Jim I just do not know. Having it in my hand and the wood, there is just something African to me. I have come down to earth a little and have abandoned the Razor Women weapon but not the general West African area. The constuction only appears similar to the knife I have shown with it. It is quite different in reality. The similarities are after all fairly universal, a stamp on a blade is not rare nor is the bolster on the item. Just to illustrate this I will post pics of a Nigerian knife. It would be fantastic if some of the Asian collectors could show me the error of my ways. It is a nasty little slashing weapon, it is light only just 250g. I just do not know for sure, need help from Asian collectors please. Could be Chinese?

5th October 2007, 05:44 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Me too Tim ! I wish I had the Marti article to look through, or even the Spring book which has some good examples. It really is a tough call sometimes, the blade with these crenallations seems atypical for Asian weapons to me, but the grip aside from the widening center, still recalls the dha. We really do need some help from the dha guys!

5th October 2007, 12:01 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	In the absents of Asian collectors opinions. I will just have to bravely soldier on, or is the silence telling? I see the subtle shape to the handle as African and most of all the the loose and immediate ease of the triangle patterns on the copper also African. Perhaps Asian collectors can argue the same for Asian work. The handle is not as long as one would think. Look at the wood. Is it Asian? The Razor weapon may not be too much of a fantasy.

5th October 2007, 03:41 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Excellent observations Tim, and very compelling. That wood seen along with the other items you show certainly seems strikingly similar, and as you suggest, quite African. Thank you so much for posting the Marti illustrations! I could recall the very unusual shapes and presume the one with the barbs along the back triggered my thoughts on the crenallations on yours. Another thing you mentioned, as well as your very well placed thoughts on the loose geometric pattern on the hilt mounts, is the fact that they are copper. Isnt copperwork in material items key in certain African regions? I think west African if not mistaken. I doubt if the Asian collectors will read this unless we repost under another heading.

5th October 2007, 03:42 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Apparently there is Asian ebony. Indian {Ceylon} and East indian ebony {Malaysia} I have seen Indian chillum in a black wood. I do not think this is Indian or that wood. I am puzzled on this one. The decoration just seems African. I just see Asian decoration as tight, formal or floral, more schematic? does that make sense? You could be right Jim. I will start a thread titled Asian Mak

5th October 2007, 04:57 PM	#7
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi Tim, could this be a variant of Ram Dao or some sort of Naga Dao? The bolster looks very Nepalese to me.