Sword ID Help Needed

RSWORD · 3rd October 2007, 03:11 AM

The blade very well may be an old Chinese Jian blade. The diamond shape cross section plus the bottom picture hints at an inserted edge and there seems to be some hints of lamination in the blade especially near the hilt. The point, however, is much more tapered than is typical and may be the result a slightly longer blade being reshaped or shortened due to tip damage. The handle and scabbard are unique but seem to show some age and may point to a small ethnic group. I like the blade. It has a certain stoutness to it!

Robert · 3rd October 2007, 04:24 AM

RSWORD,
Thank you for the information. What would be the best way to tell if it has an inserted edge ? Would etching the blade with lime juice help or would that be a bad idea? Thanks again.

Robert

RSWORD · 3rd October 2007, 01:23 PM

Hi Robert,

If you look at your bottom picture and then look at the bottom edge you can see that the very edge is showing up slightly lighter in color than the body of steel. You can also see, if you look real close, a faint "line" or "hamon" which is visible to my eye in that sunlight you took the photo. I do not recommend lime juice for this blade. If you wanted to give it an etch to see what may pop out I would recommend using a hot vinegar etch, taking your time and watching closely along the edges for a "hamon" and also looking at the body of the blade near the ridge line for any subtle lamination. Look at the blade closely in sunlight in those areas and you should be able to see what I am seeing in your pictures. If you do decide to do an etch please share the results!

Robert · 3rd October 2007, 02:04 PM

RSWORD,
I did as you suggested and looked at the blade in the sunlight this morning. I can see a line about an 1/8" in from the edge of the blade down both sides. Funny how I never noticed this before.

I don't think that I will etch the blade until I find a little more information on it. Do you know of anyone I might contact to have the writing translated? Thanks again for all your help.

Robert

Klas Larsson · 4th October 2007, 12:04 AM

Let me suggest that some lines of the characters are missing, and that the two right bottom characters are Ri and Ben, like in Japan, Ri missing a little on the top. The reason a suggest this is partly that I have had a dao with the characters Ri Ben Da Guo, Great Japan Empire, and Zheng, like in government, plus some thing about Manchuria, a I forgot the exact words, written on the handle in a similar fashion. Maybe this can give some lead to the meaning.
With may dao I speculated that it may have belonged to a Quisling group in Manchuria during the Japanese occupation, and maybe marked to show, who they where, if checked by japanese soldiers. This one doesn't have the exact same writing though, but still I must say the characters for Japan is rather close.

Also some times rebel groups did this on their weapons like the Tai Ping, and we have Tai as the second character to the left. The top left character can be Zheng as in right, correct, proper if one little line is missing....

Anyway, a few suggestions, interesting if somebody can figure the whole meaning.

Robert · 4th October 2007, 12:39 AM

Klas,
Thank you very much for your help. I am adding a new picture that I have made of the markings with a little more detail. It is very hard to tell if some of the markings on the grip were made as part of the writing or are just damage to the wood. I hope that this new picture will help.

Robert

Robert · 8th October 2007, 08:17 PM

Well, I finally got a decent picture of the grip where the characters can be seen. I hope this helps as I would really like to find out something about this sword.

Robert

4th October 2007, 12:39 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Klas, Thank you very much for your help. I am adding a new picture that I have made of the markings with a little more detail. It is very hard to tell if some of the markings on the grip were made as part of the writing or are just damage to the wood. I hope that this new picture will help. Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 4th October 2007 at 12:57 AM.

8th October 2007, 08:17 PM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Well, I finally got a decent picture of the grip where the characters can be seen. I hope this helps as I would really like to find out something about this sword. Robert Attached Images

3rd October 2007, 03:11 AM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	The blade very well may be an old Chinese Jian blade. The diamond shape cross section plus the bottom picture hints at an inserted edge and there seems to be some hints of lamination in the blade especially near the hilt. The point, however, is much more tapered than is typical and may be the result a slightly longer blade being reshaped or shortened due to tip damage. The handle and scabbard are unique but seem to show some age and may point to a small ethnic group. I like the blade. It has a certain stoutness to it!

3rd October 2007, 04:24 AM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	RSWORD, Thank you for the information. What would be the best way to tell if it has an inserted edge ? Would etching the blade with lime juice help or would that be a bad idea? Thanks again. Robert

3rd October 2007, 01:23 PM	#3
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	Hi Robert, If you look at your bottom picture and then look at the bottom edge you can see that the very edge is showing up slightly lighter in color than the body of steel. You can also see, if you look real close, a faint "line" or "hamon" which is visible to my eye in that sunlight you took the photo. I do not recommend lime juice for this blade. If you wanted to give it an etch to see what may pop out I would recommend using a hot vinegar etch, taking your time and watching closely along the edges for a "hamon" and also looking at the body of the blade near the ridge line for any subtle lamination. Look at the blade closely in sunlight in those areas and you should be able to see what I am seeing in your pictures. If you do decide to do an etch please share the results!

3rd October 2007, 02:04 PM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	RSWORD, I did as you suggested and looked at the blade in the sunlight this morning. I can see a line about an 1/8" in from the edge of the blade down both sides. Funny how I never noticed this before. I don't think that I will etch the blade until I find a little more information on it. Do you know of anyone I might contact to have the writing translated? Thanks again for all your help. Robert

4th October 2007, 12:04 AM	#5
Klas Larsson Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 23	Let me suggest that some lines of the characters are missing, and that the two right bottom characters are Ri and Ben, like in Japan, Ri missing a little on the top. The reason a suggest this is partly that I have had a dao with the characters Ri Ben Da Guo, Great Japan Empire, and Zheng, like in government, plus some thing about Manchuria, a I forgot the exact words, written on the handle in a similar fashion. Maybe this can give some lead to the meaning. With may dao I speculated that it may have belonged to a Quisling group in Manchuria during the Japanese occupation, and maybe marked to show, who they where, if checked by japanese soldiers. This one doesn't have the exact same writing though, but still I must say the characters for Japan is rather close. Also some times rebel groups did this on their weapons like the Tai Ping, and we have Tai as the second character to the left. The top left character can be Zheng as in right, correct, proper if one little line is missing.... Anyway, a few suggestions, interesting if somebody can figure the whole meaning.