A Bugis keris for comments

[BluErf]

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

As for your E. Sumatran keris Blu, I'd say actually that the dress is Sulawesi Bugis.

What about the lack of buntut on the batang? This batang has the bulge near the top, but has the typical 'rounded' bottom of Sumatran sheaths.

I hear that keris forms on E Sumatra are heavily influenced by Sulawesi forms, and so we see kerises which smacks of Sulawesi, but are actually produced locally in Sumatra.

[rasdan]

Another thing, is this a Sulawesi keris? As stated in Blu's posting in the other thread, Strait bugis uses lower pendongkok. This one uses that kind of pendongkok, but i think its Sulawesi due to the akwardness of the dress. It kinda wider than average. However the blade is thinner than an average bugis keris. What do u think of the quality of the blade? I think its average. Can u guys please comment? Can somebody post some pictures of Sulawesi Bugis keris and Sumatran/Bugis keris to ease the explaination? Would appreciate that very much.

These are the pictures of my second posting. Forgot to attach in the message. Looks Sulawesi to me. But, what about the blade? Its thin and looks like straits bugis ones.

[BluErf]

That's a classical Riau Bugis keris, just like mine on the brown background.

[BluErf]

Another Sulawesi keris with a N Malay (?) blade. We see all sorts of keris forms in Sulawesi dress...

[DAHenkel]

Originally Posted by BluErf

What about the lack of buntut on the batang? This batang has the bulge near the top, but has the typical 'rounded' bottom of Sumatran sheaths.

I hear that keris forms on E Sumatra are heavily influenced by Sulawesi forms, and so we see kerises which smacks of Sulawesi, but are actually produced locally in Sumatra.

Could easily have lost the buntut and been re-worked or perhaps the entire batang is a replacement. Actually with the exception of Palembang you rarely see the batang terminate in a - for lack of a better term - iras buntut. While frequently rounded, they are usually tekak belalai or patat lipas style, made from a separate piece, typically of different material.

The entire Straits & Peninsular region is heavily influenced by Bugis forms and they are, occasionally difficult to tell apart. But I don't think so in this case. The sampir form and especially the "swollen" throat and tapering batang are classic Sulawesi.

Rasdan - you've posted pictures of a magnificent S. Sumatran Bugis keris. The lacquer is Palembang and a dead giveaway, as is the sheath form which, as has been frequently noted before, is popularly referred to as a "chieftain" or "penghulu" style. The blade is more or less typical for S. Sumatra and not necessarily a bad blade. It's clearly shows some heavy wear through age or neglect.

BluErf has already posted some fine examples of Straits Bugis keris. Here are some confirmed Sulawesi keris to compare.

[DAHenkel]

Next, a selection of East Sumatran Bugis for comparison. Note again - East Sumatra is highly varied. Some seem more Minang, some more Bugis, and some Malay.

[DAHenkel]

Also, while we're at it, here are a few Riau keris as well.

Confused yet? Me too - but that's what's fun about these things. And I'm only including archetypal pieces here - If I sprang some of the wierder stuff on you you'd be even more confused.

[Alam Shah]

Thanks all. I having "indigestion" right now. Will get back soon, i hope.
Dave, if you don't mind. Bring it on. May be confusing, but what the heck, it will be a good learning experience.

[rasdan]

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

Also, while we're at it, here are a few Riau keris as well.

Confused yet? Me too - but that's what's fun about these things. And I'm only including archetypal pieces here - If I sprang some of the wierder stuff on you you'd be even more confused.

Whoa, i'm a bit dizzy right now. It seems that there are no general rule of determining origin of Sumatran kerisses. Some bugis looks Malay, Minang etc. Heres some basic conclusion (on the dress) i can made:

1. The penghulu sampir originated in South Sumatra and the laquer is Palembang work

2. Sulawesi kerisses has a bit smaller sampir compared to penghulu ones and the batang is tapering with a flaring buntut.

3. East Sumatran kerisses are closer to their Sulawesi cousins, but have some other influence such as Minang etc. However flaring buntut is not a must.

4. Pendongkoks be it Long "necked" or the shorter "dulang" type can be either Sumatran or Sulawesi.

5. Riau kerises are generally of composite influences, many dont have flaring buntut.

If there is anything incorrect regarding the conclusions, can somebody correct me? Can i say that Sulawesi keris MUST have tapering batang?

Phew... and this is only regarding the dress, the blade is another thick chapter. hee..hee..

RSword, love your example, especially the one with the gold oversheath. The blade looks very close to Dave's giant bugis keris which is presumed originated in Sumbawa.

[Alam Shah]

Since we are still dicussing sampirs, can anyone tell me where does this sheath originated from?

[rasdan]

This also confuse me. It is stated as a bugis keris. Does Bugis kerisses have this kind of hilt?