Sword ID Help Needed

[Robert]

Hi Andrew,
Thank you for letting me know. I had no idea that I posted the writing upside down.

Robert

[RSWORD]

The blade very well may be an old Chinese Jian blade. The diamond shape cross section plus the bottom picture hints at an inserted edge and there seems to be some hints of lamination in the blade especially near the hilt. The point, however, is much more tapered than is typical and may be the result a slightly longer blade being reshaped or shortened due to tip damage. The handle and scabbard are unique but seem to show some age and may point to a small ethnic group. I like the blade. It has a certain stoutness to it!

[Robert]

RSWORD,
Thank you for the information. What would be the best way to tell if it has an inserted edge ? Would etching the blade with lime juice help or would that be a bad idea? Thanks again.

Robert

[RSWORD]

Hi Robert,

If you look at your bottom picture and then look at the bottom edge you can see that the very edge is showing up slightly lighter in color than the body of steel. You can also see, if you look real close, a faint "line" or "hamon" which is visible to my eye in that sunlight you took the photo. I do not recommend lime juice for this blade. If you wanted to give it an etch to see what may pop out I would recommend using a hot vinegar etch, taking your time and watching closely along the edges for a "hamon" and also looking at the body of the blade near the ridge line for any subtle lamination. Look at the blade closely in sunlight in those areas and you should be able to see what I am seeing in your pictures. If you do decide to do an etch please share the results!

[Robert]

RSWORD,
I did as you suggested and looked at the blade in the sunlight this morning. I can see a line about an 1/8" in from the edge of the blade down both sides. Funny how I never noticed this before. I don't think that I will etch the blade until I find a little more information on it. Do you know of anyone I might contact to have the writing translated? Thanks again for all your help.

Robert

[Klas Larsson]

Let me suggest that some lines of the characters are missing, and that the two right bottom characters are Ri and Ben, like in Japan, Ri missing a little on the top. The reason a suggest this is partly that I have had a dao with the characters Ri Ben Da Guo, Great Japan Empire, and Zheng, like in government, plus some thing about Manchuria, a I forgot the exact words, written on the handle in a similar fashion. Maybe this can give some lead to the meaning.
With may dao I speculated that it may have belonged to a Quisling group in Manchuria during the Japanese occupation, and maybe marked to show, who they where, if checked by japanese soldiers. This one doesn't have the exact same writing though, but still I must say the characters for Japan is rather close.

Also some times rebel groups did this on their weapons like the Tai Ping, and we have Tai as the second character to the left. The top left character can be Zheng as in right, correct, proper if one little line is missing....

Anyway, a few suggestions, interesting if somebody can figure the whole meaning.

[Robert]

Klas,
Thank you very much for your help. I am adding a new picture that I have made of the markings with a little more detail. It is very hard to tell if some of the markings on the grip were made as part of the writing or are just damage to the wood. I hope that this new picture will help.

Robert

[DaveA]

Hi Robert,

I may have found you some answers. I have attached your image of the writing for reference.

My daughter is fluent in Japanese and took at look at the writing. Here is what she wrote back:

"This is very old, fancy writing. The second character (far right column down) means I, or myself, the third character (below that one) could mean rice paddy, a common component of many Japanese names ("da"). HOWEVER, the character below rice paddy is part of the word "nihon" which means Japan, and that makes me think the rice paddy character is really the "ni" part of nihon, and just written in a really old fashioned way that's missing a stroke. The first column is probably the guy's name..the first two characters are "correct" and "fat," but there's probably an alternative meaning for the fat one. correct is pronounced tadashi and fat is futo. i can't read the last character. So the guy's last name was Tadashi and his first name was like fat something, maybe like "bountiful harvest."

Maybe now armed with this information you and other forum members can zero in on a better identification.

Best of luck,

Dave A.

[Robert]

Dave,
I cannot thank you and your daughter enough for your help in this. Did she see the picture of the hilt itself or just my poor rendition of the characters? If she has not seen the picture of the hilt could you possibly show it to her as I could have missed something when I made an attempt to reproduce it in a larger clearer form or posting. Thank you again for you and your daughters help.


Robert

[kai]

The Kaso also crossed my mind but the blade of Robert's example is way too short to meet its intended purpose. Moreover, the carving of the hilt doesn't strike me as Aceh nor Sumatran in general...

Regards,
Kai

[Robert]

This is the only other sword that I have that has a blade similar in style and length to the one above but as you can see the hilt is completely different. Still hoping to get a complete translation on the carved script.

Robert

[Battara]

Robert, this last one looks more northern PI to me.

[Robert]

OK, Now I'm really going out on a limb. If the writing on the hilt is Japanese does anyone know anythig about the edged weapons carried by the native people of the Aleutian Islands? Just a wild guess.

Robert