A worthy kattar for comment

Jens Nordlunde · 12th March 2005, 01:02 PM

You have an old and very nice katar – congratulation. The midrib on the blade is the ‘Kundalini flame’ or the ‘Tree of life’ springing from a lotus bud.
I agree with RSword that the question about etching or not is a difficult one. You know what you have, but can’t be sure of what you will get. Normally, if the pattern is very week, I would etch the blade – but the decision is yours.
I am not sure that it is umbrellas shown on the side guards; my guess is that it is flowers, but I am not sure. Have a look at the picture shown, do you think it is umbrellas or do you think it is flowers? I think they are flowers.
It may be easier for you to see if I add the picture - sorry

.

Jens Nordlunde · 12th March 2005, 02:51 PM

I remembered to have see the decoration on the side guards before in one of my books – but in which?
I started with Hendley, and in the second I found. ‘Damascene Work in India’ it is on plate 25. Here is what he writes about it.
‘Hindu thrusting dagger. False damascening in gold from Kotha, a great State, an offshot from Boondi in Rajputana; cost Rs. 50. Here gold of different tints has been employed with good effect.’
Using a magnifying glass I can't see that the two side guards can be closer to each other.
Even the number of flowers seem to be the same.
Sorry, I forgot, the book was printed in 1892.

Ann Feuerbach · 12th March 2005, 04:59 PM

That is a very nice piece. A word of warning about reetching. Traditional etchants can and do initiate corrosion, which is why it is unacceptable in the museum world. I have, however, developed a museum acceptable method that is noninterventive (conservator term). However, the pattern will not be as visable as traditional etching, but the reflectiveness of the blade is better and the substance used is often used for the conservation of archaeological iron. What ever you decide to do, be careful.

Jens Nordlunde · 12th March 2005, 05:11 PM

Hello Ann, and thanks for your warning comments - they are well placed, as one have to be/should be very careful when eatching anew - only a pity for us Europeans that you live in the States

.

Mare Rosu · 12th March 2005, 06:01 PM

JENS
This is off subject but needs to be answered if at all possible.
First
I must take exception to you comment about Ann being in the USA.

I personally think it is great that she is here. However, I do think she needs to be in the South rather way up North

also
Ann
You said that you have a process for wootz steel, do you take on "work" for this process of yours? I have some wootz daggers that needs some help and would like to commission you to do it.
Sorry for the interruption of this thread, but could not let JENS get away with his remark.

I also must give credit to JENS for his great find on the Katar, it sure looks like the same Katar that you found in the book.
Gene

Montino Bourbon · 12th March 2005, 06:45 PM

Dear Jens; thank you so much for finding that photo of the katar in your book; it does seem like the same thing, except for the inscription at the top. The similarity is amazing! excellent detective work!

Dr Feuerbach- thank you for the caution. I will probably leave this piece as it is, since the wootz pattern is visible in some places, and it's in very good condition otherwise. I would be delighted to know about your etching process, if it's not a trade secret. If it is, I would be willing to trade for some of my secret recipes for curries!

Jens Nordlunde · 12th March 2005, 08:59 PM

Gene, I thought that you might not stand such a provoaction

.

Montino, you are most welcome. To make a find like this makes me almost as much pleasure than it makes you

.

Jens

12th March 2005, 01:02 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	You have an old and very nice katar – congratulation. The midrib on the blade is the ‘Kundalini flame’ or the ‘Tree of life’ springing from a lotus bud. I agree with RSword that the question about etching or not is a difficult one. You know what you have, but can’t be sure of what you will get. Normally, if the pattern is very week, I would etch the blade – but the decision is yours. I am not sure that it is umbrellas shown on the side guards; my guess is that it is flowers, but I am not sure. Have a look at the picture shown, do you think it is umbrellas or do you think it is flowers? I think they are flowers. It may be easier for you to see if I add the picture - sorry . Attached Images Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 12th March 2005 at 01:14 PM.

12th March 2005, 02:51 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I remembered to have see the decoration on the side guards before in one of my books – but in which? I started with Hendley, and in the second I found. ‘Damascene Work in India’ it is on plate 25. Here is what he writes about it. ‘Hindu thrusting dagger. False damascening in gold from Kotha, a great State, an offshot from Boondi in Rajputana; cost Rs. 50. Here gold of different tints has been employed with good effect.’ Using a magnifying glass I can't see that the two side guards can be closer to each other. Even the number of flowers seem to be the same. Sorry, I forgot, the book was printed in 1892. Attached Images

12th March 2005, 05:11 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hello Ann, and thanks for your warning comments - they are well placed, as one have to be/should be very careful when eatching anew - only a pity for us Europeans that you live in the States.

12th March 2005, 06:01 PM	#5
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	HOLD ON NOW! JENS JENS This is off subject but needs to be answered if at all possible. First I must take exception to you comment about Ann being in the USA. I personally think it is great that she is here. However, I do think she needs to be in the South rather way up North also Ann You said that you have a process for wootz steel, do you take on "work" for this process of yours? I have some wootz daggers that needs some help and would like to commission you to do it. Sorry for the interruption of this thread, but could not let JENS get away with his remark. I also must give credit to JENS for his great find on the Katar, it sure looks like the same Katar that you found in the book. Gene

12th March 2005, 06:45 PM	#6
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	Thank you for your expertise! Dear Jens; thank you so much for finding that photo of the katar in your book; it does seem like the same thing, except for the inscription at the top. The similarity is amazing! excellent detective work! Dr Feuerbach- thank you for the caution. I will probably leave this piece as it is, since the wootz pattern is visible in some places, and it's in very good condition otherwise. I would be delighted to know about your etching process, if it's not a trade secret. If it is, I would be willing to trade for some of my secret recipes for curries!

12th March 2005, 04:59 PM	#3
Ann Feuerbach Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 133	That is a very nice piece. A word of warning about reetching. Traditional etchants can and do initiate corrosion, which is why it is unacceptable in the museum world. I have, however, developed a museum acceptable method that is noninterventive (conservator term). However, the pattern will not be as visable as traditional etching, but the reflectiveness of the blade is better and the substance used is often used for the conservation of archaeological iron. What ever you decide to do, be careful.

12th March 2005, 08:59 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Gene, I thought that you might not stand such a provoaction . Montino, you are most welcome. To make a find like this makes me almost as much pleasure than it makes you . Jens