Between Solo and Yogya

Raden Usman Djogja · 19th September 2007, 02:55 PM

dear friends,

what kind of pamor do you think?
is it jogja or solo?

regards,
Usmen

A. G. Maisey · 20th September 2007, 12:12 AM

G'day Pak Usman

Personally, I have no preference between keris and tombak. The work involved in making a tombak is considerably less than in making a keris, but both can equally reflect the skill of the maker. Of all the Javanese wesi aji I have , possibly the finest piece is a tombak by Jayasukadgo; I was able to afford this, but I would have difficulty in affording a keris by the same maker.

In my experience, very few collectors in the western world appreciate the tombak . Which is a bit of a pity.

Yes, I understood that you were only telling a story when you wrote of the succession in Mataram, and honestly, it was quite interesting, but had I been in possession of this knowledge, I would probably not have chosen to make it available on the net.Such an act requires great bravery, which I do not possess.

That is a nice tombak you have shown a pic of. Would it be possible to do a photo that shows the metuk at a 90 degree angle, and another photo full length, so we can see the pawakan?

Alan.

Raden Usman Djogja · 20th September 2007, 02:33 PM

dear Alan,

May I open a new thread to focus the discussion on tombak. It may be less interesting to non-Indonesian. Even, amongst Indonesians, tombak is less attractive than keris.

However, it could be as a breakthrough for a "budget collector with budget constraint" like me. Keris is unaffordable since every collector wants to offer the highest bidding to occupy the best one. Keris market price was boomed by overseas collectors and by myths.

warm salam,
Usmen
ps. I assume if you dont respond in 3 minutes, it means you agree that I open a new thread for discussing tombak.

Rick · 20th September 2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

dear Alan,

May I open a new thread to focus the discussion on tombak. It may be less interesting to non-Indonesian. Even, amongst Indonesians, tombak is less attractive than keris.

However, it could be as a breakthrough for a "budget collector with budget constraint" like me. Keris is unaffordable since every collector wants to offer the highest bidding to occupy the best one. Keris market price was boomed by overseas collectors and by myths.

warm salam,
Usmen
ps. I assume if you dont respond in 3 minutes, it means you agree that I open a new thread for discussing tombak.

Since Alan is probably sleeping as you post this Usman; would a Moderator's permission be sufficient ?

Rick

Raden Usman Djogja · 20th September 2007, 02:52 PM

Thank you very much, Rick

cahaya · 20th September 2007, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

dear friends,

what kind of pamor do you think?
is it jogja or solo?

regards,
Usmen

Hallo Mr. Usmen

can you sent pic close up/fokus at the pamor?
and like Bapak Allan to can we see "pawakan"/full pic tombak?

That is garap PB Mataram Surokarto?? (in my opinion for now)

thanks for sharing your pusoko

Raden Usman Djogja · 20th September 2007, 03:16 PM

dear Cahaya,

I have opened new thread T.O.M.B.A.K
Would you please to see there for additional images.

warm salam,
Usmen

A. G. Maisey · 20th September 2007, 11:48 PM

Pak Usmen, I tend to disagree with you that collectors outside of Indonesia are the ones who have driven keris prices up.

I have a very close friend in Solo who is possibly one of, if not the biggest wholesaler of quality wesi aji. The prices that he gets at a level where he is selling to other salesmen, are far in advance of anything that I could imagine collectors in the western world being willing to pay.

Truly top quality old keris achieve the best prices in Indonesia, not in New York, Paris, and London.

The generally held belief amongst the people I know is that the primary force in driving up prices on old top quality wesi aji was the rampant corruption in Indonesia that accelerated from the mid-1970's. I do not want to discuss this in public.

Incidentally, as Rick has pointed out, I hold no authority in this discussion group. For permission to commence a thread on a subject other than keris, the correct people to approach are Rick and David.

David · 21st September 2007, 03:15 AM

It has always been the intention that this forum would be open to the discussion of tombak as well as keris. Therefore no permission is necessary for anyone to open a thread about tombak.

A. G. Maisey · 21st September 2007, 03:21 AM

Thanks for your clarification, David.

I did not know that---or if I once did know it, I'd forgotten.

Where is the dividing line?

Do pedang fall outside the basket?

Wedung?

David · 21st September 2007, 01:29 PM

hmmm, good question. I had thought Rick laid it out in the opening posts, but going back i see he did not. I know we spoke privately about tombaks being topical to this forum, but i will defer to Rick on where, exactly, the line should be drawn on other weapons.

19th September 2007, 02:55 PM	#1
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	What kind of pamor do you think? dear friends, what kind of pamor do you think? is it jogja or solo? regards, Usmen Attached Images

20th September 2007, 02:33 PM	#3
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	May I open new thread for tombak discussion dear Alan, May I open a new thread to focus the discussion on tombak. It may be less interesting to non-Indonesian. Even, amongst Indonesians, tombak is less attractive than keris. However, it could be as a breakthrough for a "budget collector with budget constraint" like me. Keris is unaffordable since every collector wants to offer the highest bidding to occupy the best one. Keris market price was boomed by overseas collectors and by myths. warm salam, Usmen ps. I assume if you dont respond in 3 minutes, it means you agree that I open a new thread for discussing tombak.

20th September 2007, 12:12 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	G'day Pak Usman Personally, I have no preference between keris and tombak. The work involved in making a tombak is considerably less than in making a keris, but both can equally reflect the skill of the maker. Of all the Javanese wesi aji I have , possibly the finest piece is a tombak by Jayasukadgo; I was able to afford this, but I would have difficulty in affording a keris by the same maker. In my experience, very few collectors in the western world appreciate the tombak . Which is a bit of a pity. Yes, I understood that you were only telling a story when you wrote of the succession in Mataram, and honestly, it was quite interesting, but had I been in possession of this knowledge, I would probably not have chosen to make it available on the net.Such an act requires great bravery, which I do not possess. That is a nice tombak you have shown a pic of. Would it be possible to do a photo that shows the metuk at a 90 degree angle, and another photo full length, so we can see the pawakan? Alan.

20th September 2007, 02:52 PM	#5
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Thank you very much, Rick

20th September 2007, 03:16 PM	#7
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	dear Cahaya, I have opened new thread T.O.M.B.A.K Would you please to see there for additional images. warm salam, Usmen

20th September 2007, 11:48 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Pak Usmen, I tend to disagree with you that collectors outside of Indonesia are the ones who have driven keris prices up. I have a very close friend in Solo who is possibly one of, if not the biggest wholesaler of quality wesi aji. The prices that he gets at a level where he is selling to other salesmen, are far in advance of anything that I could imagine collectors in the western world being willing to pay. Truly top quality old keris achieve the best prices in Indonesia, not in New York, Paris, and London. The generally held belief amongst the people I know is that the primary force in driving up prices on old top quality wesi aji was the rampant corruption in Indonesia that accelerated from the mid-1970's. I do not want to discuss this in public. Incidentally, as Rick has pointed out, I hold no authority in this discussion group. For permission to commence a thread on a subject other than keris, the correct people to approach are Rick and David.

21st September 2007, 03:15 AM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	It has always been the intention that this forum would be open to the discussion of tombak as well as keris. Therefore no permission is necessary for anyone to open a thread about tombak.

21st September 2007, 03:21 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Thanks for your clarification, David. I did not know that---or if I once did know it, I'd forgotten. Where is the dividing line? Do pedang fall outside the basket? Wedung?

21st September 2007, 01:29 PM	#11
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	hmmm, good question. I had thought Rick laid it out in the opening posts, but going back i see he did not. I know we spoke privately about tombaks being topical to this forum, but i will defer to Rick on where, exactly, the line should be drawn on other weapons.