A slightly unique Piha Kaetta

scratch · 17th September 2007, 10:50 PM

Thanks for sharing these Derek

I thought these were a bit odd looking when I first saw them, I like them Now!
What sizes did these come in?
Cheers

Dan

Jim McDougall · 18th September 2007, 07:38 AM

These are indeed distinctive weapons, and it seems worthy to note the curious profile of the blade on the example in the initial post has a remarkable similarity to the Anglo-Saxon/Frankish seax and the larger scramasax. While these are quite early, they were used into the 15th century, more like machetes used in a chopping fashion.
Although admittedly a note based on free association, it does seem that I have heard the similarity brought up before.

derek · 19th September 2007, 04:02 AM

Hi Scratch,
They vary a lot, but most fall between 11-12 inches total length. There are many distinct styles and blade shapes. The wider blades like this example are very heavy for their size. I have a few that weigh over a pound and a half. I believe Artzi has one even heavier than that.

Hi Jim,
I like the comparison to the scramasax. I've often looked at the old scramasax blades and wondered what the entire piece looked like in its best day. You know, celtic/germanic/norse art used the kinds of intricate, organic patterns that were similar to sinhalese art. Imagine a scramasax decorated like a piha! Check this article for fun: http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_seax.html) It sort of goes against your assumptions, but seems entirely possible. In fact, if you a piha degraded down to just an old oxidized blade and tang, you would be hard-pressed to imagine it in it's presentation condition.
-d

Jim McDougall · 19th September 2007, 04:52 AM

Hi Derek,
Thanks so much for the response and for the link

Thats a great article in these weapons, and there do seem to be a wide variety of blade profiles.
Actually though my note of comparison was not meant as an assumption but as a free association note on the interesting blade profile of the piyaha and its similarity to certain forms of the seax/scramasax group.
It is often tempting to try to find associations or influences between vastly distant regions and separations in period in art and other elements of culture, but without support, these obviously remain simply a superficial comparison.

It seems I am always amazed though as new discoveries are made, and that the globalization seen today with modern technology, may have been much more prevalent than we have always believed. It seems the Vikings got around much more than we have considered. Other explorations in North America were more widespread in many cases than thought before by many of the powers we know were here. Trade routes from ancient times, and even into prehistory are constantly being retraced by supporting archaeological evidence in many places globally.

Who knows what the scholars and scientists will discover tomorrow, or many years in the future?

I cant wait !!!

You truly have a great selection of these, and I really enjoy learning more on the weapons of Sinhala. Thank you so much for the posting on them!

All best regards,
Jim

A. G. Maisey · 19th September 2007, 06:16 AM

I will preface my remarks here by saying that I have never studied nor researched the piha.I have a few that I've acquired, but they are not really something I'm particularly interested in. Yes, the workmanship is sometimes excellent, and form is sufficiently pleasing for them to be appraised as items of art, but my interests lay elsewhere.

Some years ago I had a one of these pihas out on the kitchen table when one of my son's friends and his wife visted. The wife is Sri Lankan. She remarked that her father owned a piha that had been in the family for years and years and years, through several generations.I asked if her dad might consider sale. Her response was that I should talk to her dad. I did.

The sale was not on, he wanted to give it to his grandson when his lazy daughter eventually produced one---so far she'd been a total failure with only three daughters to her credit.

However, what he told me was that this piha , which was in a wooden scabbard along with a stylus, was in fact a scribes knife. His ancestor had been a court scribe. The knife was for preparation of the palm leaf that they wrote on, and the stylus was for writing.

So the question is this:- do we have any reliable documentary evidence of crazed Sri Lankans attacking their enemies with pihas, or were pihas in effect, old time office workers knives?

Jim McDougall · 19th September 2007, 10:36 PM

What Alan has noted here presents some most interesting perspective on the Sri Lanka 'piha kaetta'. While we know the seemingly close cousin of these knives, the 'pichangetti' , has been established as a utility knife, and en suite are usually picks etc......it seems presumed the piha was intended for fighting. The term for the knife is supposed to be 'pihaya' , which I believe applies to a fighting knife, but I cannot recall the rest.
Perhaps someone here might bring out thier trusty 'Deraniyagala' ("Sinhalese Weapons and Armour", P.E.P. Deraniyagala, Journal of the Ceylon Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society", Part III , 1942). I do not have mine at hand

and hope someone could check the text on that term. Also, it seems that this article (virtually the only specific reference focused on Sri Lankan weapons I am aware of) might detail the intended use of the piha/pihaya.

It would be most interesting to learn more on these seldom discussed weapons.

spiral · 19th September 2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

. While we know the seemingly close cousin of these knives, the 'pichangetti' , has been established as a utility knife, and en suite are usually picks etc.

And of great cerimonial & cultral importance of coarse Jim as evidencend by Coorg wedding photos.

Heres a great website showing much history of the Piha....

linky

A site well worth exploring.

Your story of Phia Mr. Maisey reminds me of Nepal, one could speak to a villager about kukri & hear a kukri has been used to split kindling for heat & cooking for 4 generations in ones family & that is what its for.

That doesnt mean than 100.000 plus soldiers didnt use it as a weapon in ww1 alone or that many kings didnt own & wear great examples of them.

The Native narratives are great to have & vary valid in context, but they dont always show the full picture, I think?

Spiral

17th September 2007, 10:50 PM	#1
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	Thanks for sharing these Derek I thought these were a bit odd looking when I first saw them, I like them Now! What sizes did these come in? Cheers Dan

18th September 2007, 07:38 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,458	These are indeed distinctive weapons, and it seems worthy to note the curious profile of the blade on the example in the initial post has a remarkable similarity to the Anglo-Saxon/Frankish seax and the larger scramasax. While these are quite early, they were used into the 15th century, more like machetes used in a chopping fashion. Although admittedly a note based on free association, it does seem that I have heard the similarity brought up before.

19th September 2007, 04:02 AM	#3
derek Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215	Hi Scratch, They vary a lot, but most fall between 11-12 inches total length. There are many distinct styles and blade shapes. The wider blades like this example are very heavy for their size. I have a few that weigh over a pound and a half. I believe Artzi has one even heavier than that. Hi Jim, I like the comparison to the scramasax. I've often looked at the old scramasax blades and wondered what the entire piece looked like in its best day. You know, celtic/germanic/norse art used the kinds of intricate, organic patterns that were similar to sinhalese art. Imagine a scramasax decorated like a piha! Check this article for fun: http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_seax.html) It sort of goes against your assumptions, but seems entirely possible. In fact, if you a piha degraded down to just an old oxidized blade and tang, you would be hard-pressed to imagine it in it's presentation condition. -d

19th September 2007, 04:52 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,458	Hi Derek, Thanks so much for the response and for the link Thats a great article in these weapons, and there do seem to be a wide variety of blade profiles. Actually though my note of comparison was not meant as an assumption but as a free association note on the interesting blade profile of the piyaha and its similarity to certain forms of the seax/scramasax group. It is often tempting to try to find associations or influences between vastly distant regions and separations in period in art and other elements of culture, but without support, these obviously remain simply a superficial comparison. It seems I am always amazed though as new discoveries are made, and that the globalization seen today with modern technology, may have been much more prevalent than we have always believed. It seems the Vikings got around much more than we have considered. Other explorations in North America were more widespread in many cases than thought before by many of the powers we know were here. Trade routes from ancient times, and even into prehistory are constantly being retraced by supporting archaeological evidence in many places globally. Who knows what the scholars and scientists will discover tomorrow, or many years in the future? I cant wait !!! You truly have a great selection of these, and I really enjoy learning more on the weapons of Sinhala. Thank you so much for the posting on them! All best regards, Jim

19th September 2007, 06:16 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	I will preface my remarks here by saying that I have never studied nor researched the piha.I have a few that I've acquired, but they are not really something I'm particularly interested in. Yes, the workmanship is sometimes excellent, and form is sufficiently pleasing for them to be appraised as items of art, but my interests lay elsewhere. Some years ago I had a one of these pihas out on the kitchen table when one of my son's friends and his wife visted. The wife is Sri Lankan. She remarked that her father owned a piha that had been in the family for years and years and years, through several generations.I asked if her dad might consider sale. Her response was that I should talk to her dad. I did. The sale was not on, he wanted to give it to his grandson when his lazy daughter eventually produced one---so far she'd been a total failure with only three daughters to her credit. However, what he told me was that this piha , which was in a wooden scabbard along with a stylus, was in fact a scribes knife. His ancestor had been a court scribe. The knife was for preparation of the palm leaf that they wrote on, and the stylus was for writing. So the question is this:- do we have any reliable documentary evidence of crazed Sri Lankans attacking their enemies with pihas, or were pihas in effect, old time office workers knives?

19th September 2007, 10:36 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,458	What Alan has noted here presents some most interesting perspective on the Sri Lanka 'piha kaetta'. While we know the seemingly close cousin of these knives, the 'pichangetti' , has been established as a utility knife, and en suite are usually picks etc......it seems presumed the piha was intended for fighting. The term for the knife is supposed to be 'pihaya' , which I believe applies to a fighting knife, but I cannot recall the rest. Perhaps someone here might bring out thier trusty 'Deraniyagala' ("Sinhalese Weapons and Armour", P.E.P. Deraniyagala, Journal of the Ceylon Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society", Part III , 1942). I do not have mine at hand and hope someone could check the text on that term. Also, it seems that this article (virtually the only specific reference focused on Sri Lankan weapons I am aware of) might detail the intended use of the piha/pihaya. It would be most interesting to learn more on these seldom discussed weapons.