Bukharan handles

ariel · 17th September 2007, 05:08 PM

Looking at Artzi's site, he has examples of 2-rivet, 3-rivet, 5-rivet and even 4-rivet handles on weapons from Bukhara, but only one would conceivably qualify for " large-ish" rivets.
http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=434
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=417
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1321
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2215
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2029
One of my pseudoshashkas ( the leftmost one) has Afghani stamps from Mazar-i-Sharif ( admittedly Uzbeki territory), and 3 rather large rivets.
The peshkabzes you show, IMHO, are unlikely to be made in Mysore: too far South for a typically Northern weapon. Were they brought assembled from Bukhara? Who knows... And, in general, Paul's book does not impress me as a reliable source of info.
My bottom line: small rivets can come from everywhere; large ones are more likely to come from Uzbeki tradition. Three rivets are of no help, but 5 rivets are likely to come from Bukhara. Five large rivets clinch the deal.
Agreed?
Sounds like a Sherlock Holmes' title " The case of five large rivets"

Rick · 17th September 2007, 06:05 PM

What do we have here ariel ?
Bukharan ?

spiral · 17th September 2007, 06:31 PM

mmmm very nice Rick, the oblique cross cut of dark rhino horn is typicaly Bukharan.

The 5 small rivets pattern was certanly common in 19th century English made knives. Not sure whether thats relevant or not?

Spiral

ariel · 17th September 2007, 06:51 PM

Nine rivets?
Must be a Mother of all Bukharans!

Spiral is right: the rhino horn cut does look Bukharan, and this confirms the rivet theory.
Masalski observed making wootz ingots in Bukhara in the mid-19th century.
Any distinct features of Bukharan wootz?

Jens Nordlunde · 18th September 2007, 04:13 PM

Ariel,

Many weapons did, as we know, travel a lot, so the Mysore one, most likely is a traveller. I agree with you on Jaiwant Paul, and a few others no doubt, but the pictures are getting better and better the more books he publishes

.

The five rivets are likely to come from Bukhara or somewhere north, but I think the big rivets very likely come from Bukhara. I don’t know about any special watering used in the area, and the Moser collection has been packed away for some years now, so try to ask Rivkin, he may have the answer.

17th September 2007, 06:05 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Lots of Rivets What do we have here ariel ? Bukharan ? Attached Images

18th September 2007, 04:13 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ariel, Many weapons did, as we know, travel a lot, so the Mysore one, most likely is a traveller. I agree with you on Jaiwant Paul, and a few others no doubt, but the pictures are getting better and better the more books he publishes. The five rivets are likely to come from Bukhara or somewhere north, but I think the big rivets very likely come from Bukhara. I don’t know about any special watering used in the area, and the Moser collection has been packed away for some years now, so try to ask Rivkin, he may have the answer.

17th September 2007, 05:08 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Looking at Artzi's site, he has examples of 2-rivet, 3-rivet, 5-rivet and even 4-rivet handles on weapons from Bukhara, but only one would conceivably qualify for " large-ish" rivets. http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=434 http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=417 http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1321 http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2215 http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2029 One of my pseudoshashkas ( the leftmost one) has Afghani stamps from Mazar-i-Sharif ( admittedly Uzbeki territory), and 3 rather large rivets. The peshkabzes you show, IMHO, are unlikely to be made in Mysore: too far South for a typically Northern weapon. Were they brought assembled from Bukhara? Who knows... And, in general, Paul's book does not impress me as a reliable source of info. My bottom line: small rivets can come from everywhere; large ones are more likely to come from Uzbeki tradition. Three rivets are of no help, but 5 rivets are likely to come from Bukhara. Five large rivets clinch the deal. Agreed? Sounds like a Sherlock Holmes' title " The case of five large rivets"

17th September 2007, 06:31 PM	#3
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	mmmm very nice Rick, the oblique cross cut of dark rhino horn is typicaly Bukharan. The 5 small rivets pattern was certanly common in 19th century English made knives. Not sure whether thats relevant or not? Spiral

17th September 2007, 06:51 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Nine rivets? Must be a Mother of all Bukharans! Spiral is right: the rhino horn cut does look Bukharan, and this confirms the rivet theory. Masalski observed making wootz ingots in Bukhara in the mid-19th century. Any distinct features of Bukharan wootz?