Angle between ganja and pesi

Michel · 5th September 2007, 02:44 PM

Thank you Alan for all the information.
I have now been on your site, printed some of the pages and I am learning a lot.
I have also discovered that you give a glossary of Indonesian words related to keris which will be of great help at least until my dictionary arrives.
Your article "origin of the keris" gives a very convincing explanation about the keris evolution and change of Angle between the pesi and the blade.
I have a few problems to follow exactly your methodology for forging a keris, as I started making an exercise of heat welding that we transformed at a later stage into a blade and a blade not big enough to make a normal keris but only a patrem.
I than had to find a good example of a patrem. I found it on Alam Shah site where he had one nice patrem with not too many luk and a thin and elegant blade, but no way to establish the angle between the pesi and the blade and a very special kerdas hilt.
As you have seen on the photo, I do not have enough metal for the ganja and I will be iconoclastic again and forge it from a separate layered piece with no nickel. I will do my best to have this ganja as esthetically acceptable as possible. The example of Alam Shah, looks fine for me.
I will have some difficulties with the selection of the hilt and sheath shapes. My inclination would be to make a hilt Jogjakarta or Surakarta style with a sheath ladrang, but I may be completely heretical with such a combination.

I recognize that I do not tend towards perfection and excellence with that keris but as I do that for my pleasure, I hope it will not matter much and I will be pardon by you and the senior members of warung kopi !
Thank you so much for what you have explained and all the advices given.
Kind regards
Michel

A. G. Maisey · 6th September 2007, 01:38 AM

Michel, if you can phrase the problems you have in following my methodology as straightforward, specific questions, I will be happy to try to answer these for you.

Michel · 7th September 2007, 02:03 PM

Thank you Alan,
Your methodology has a given chronology:
1) make a pattern of the blade,
2) set the correct angle between the pesi and the blade on the pattern
3) draw the ganja
4) cut the ganja pattern and adjust it
5) forge your keris to shape
in summary you make a complete an exact pattern of the complete blade and ganja before starting to forge.
I did that the wrong way, starting forging before having a pattern of the blade, let alone the one of the ganja and I am now with a piece of thick layered metal with the shape you can see on the photo and I will try to bring it to the shape of the pattern next to it. Secondly, as I have not cut the metal to make the ganja from my piece of layered metal and have already forge the pesi, I will have to make the ganja out of an other piece of layered metal from a previous heat welding exercise. This is all due to lack of planning as we did not start with the idea to forge a keris blade but to make an exercise in heat welding nickel and iron. But to our surprise we succeeded in heat welding a few layers and thought that it would be a pity not to utilize the results of our efforts.
This is not going to be a reference keris (!) but the exercise will certainly teach me a lot.
Thanks again for all your advices.
By the way, we have moves the forge and the anvil from my place to my son's place and following your advices have now an improve forging situation.
Kind regards
Michel

kai · 7th September 2007, 07:46 PM

Hello Michel,

How about trying a ganja iras keris this time? That should fit with the stage you're at, and it's probably less difficult, anyway...

Regards,
Kai

5th September 2007, 02:44 PM	#1
Michel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 139	Angle, forging, ganja Thank you Alan for all the information. I have now been on your site, printed some of the pages and I am learning a lot. I have also discovered that you give a glossary of Indonesian words related to keris which will be of great help at least until my dictionary arrives. Your article "origin of the keris" gives a very convincing explanation about the keris evolution and change of Angle between the pesi and the blade. I have a few problems to follow exactly your methodology for forging a keris, as I started making an exercise of heat welding that we transformed at a later stage into a blade and a blade not big enough to make a normal keris but only a patrem. I than had to find a good example of a patrem. I found it on Alam Shah site where he had one nice patrem with not too many luk and a thin and elegant blade, but no way to establish the angle between the pesi and the blade and a very special kerdas hilt. As you have seen on the photo, I do not have enough metal for the ganja and I will be iconoclastic again and forge it from a separate layered piece with no nickel. I will do my best to have this ganja as esthetically acceptable as possible. The example of Alam Shah, looks fine for me. I will have some difficulties with the selection of the hilt and sheath shapes. My inclination would be to make a hilt Jogjakarta or Surakarta style with a sheath ladrang, but I may be completely heretical with such a combination. I recognize that I do not tend towards perfection and excellence with that keris but as I do that for my pleasure, I hope it will not matter much and I will be pardon by you and the senior members of warung kopi ! Thank you so much for what you have explained and all the advices given. Kind regards Michel

7th September 2007, 02:03 PM	#3
Michel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 139	Forging methodology Thank you Alan, Your methodology has a given chronology: 1) make a pattern of the blade, 2) set the correct angle between the pesi and the blade on the pattern 3) draw the ganja 4) cut the ganja pattern and adjust it 5) forge your keris to shape in summary you make a complete an exact pattern of the complete blade and ganja before starting to forge. I did that the wrong way, starting forging before having a pattern of the blade, let alone the one of the ganja and I am now with a piece of thick layered metal with the shape you can see on the photo and I will try to bring it to the shape of the pattern next to it. Secondly, as I have not cut the metal to make the ganja from my piece of layered metal and have already forge the pesi, I will have to make the ganja out of an other piece of layered metal from a previous heat welding exercise. This is all due to lack of planning as we did not start with the idea to forge a keris blade but to make an exercise in heat welding nickel and iron. But to our surprise we succeeded in heat welding a few layers and thought that it would be a pity not to utilize the results of our efforts. This is not going to be a reference keris (!) but the exercise will certainly teach me a lot. Thanks again for all your advices. By the way, we have moves the forge and the anvil from my place to my son's place and following your advices have now an improve forging situation. Kind regards Michel

6th September 2007, 01:38 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Michel, if you can phrase the problems you have in following my methodology as straightforward, specific questions, I will be happy to try to answer these for you.

7th September 2007, 07:46 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Michel, How about trying a ganja iras keris this time? That should fit with the stage you're at, and it's probably less difficult, anyway... Regards, Kai