Kilij with square kufic inscriptions

erlikhan · 10th August 2007, 09:13 AM

There might be a dating like 975 (16th c.) on the left cartuche, or the cartuche closest to the blade tip. Am I right?

kronckew · 10th August 2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlikhan

There might be a dating like 975 (16th c.) on the left cartuche, or the cartuche closest to the blade tip. Am I right?

in arabic 975 = ٩٧٥

erlikhan · 10th August 2007, 10:10 AM

Right, the figures look like 975 in Arabic numbers, but in a decorated way.

rand · 10th August 2007, 05:00 PM

Two more images of sword...

rand · 11th August 2007, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlikhan

Right, the figures look like 975 in Arabic numbers, but in a decorated way.

Do you have an opinion as to when the calligraphy was done?

Thanks,

rand

rand · 11th August 2007, 03:45 AM

Started this new thread when I realized I had deviated away from Artzi's thread on his kilijs with inscriptions.

This sword has a different style calligraphy, its the same type calligraphy as the Quran was writen in. It is also the only calligraphy ever used to decorate the exterior of building, such as Samarkand.

The calligraphy on this blade apprears to be in the square kufic style.
http://www.sakkal.com/Arab_Calligraphy_Art6.html

Square kufic alphabet
http://www.sakkal.com/instrctn/sq_kufi_alphabet.html

Above are links to examples of Square kufic script.

rand

rand · 11th August 2007, 04:14 AM

The swords with the green ray skin on handle belonged to Sultan Selim I, 16th century. "Decorated with kufic inscriptions,resettes,rumi scrolls, palmettes, and tulip motifs" quote from Military Museum catalog.

What I hope to start, is a gradual accumlation of datable inscriptions to help determine a time period for the date of these sword types. A typology of Islamic swords based on blade style, calligraphy, metallurgy, metalwork (such as types of inlay), art design progression, hilt styles, pommels, grip styles, grip scale materials, grip scale coverings, dimensions,weight, cross section of blade, crossguards, scabbard style and so on....

rand

rand · 11th August 2007, 04:24 AM

The technique used to inlay the gold on the 16th century swords posted above are unknown to me,

The first kilij posted on this thread has a form of channel cut inlay used to make the inscriptions. The blade has the appearance of a raised section cartouche by chiseling away steel and a sharper curve to its blade when compared with Sultan Suleymans kilij.

One thing to take note of is the 16th century swords above have animal skin wrapped over the handle.

rand

rand · 10th August 2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

in arabic 975 = ٩٧٥

976- 29 (3%) + 622 = 1568

Don't know what the rest of the inscription says,

don't know if this is date for being made or a reference to something else.

But would like to know, there is a huge gap to fill of translations of Turkish inscriptions, espsecially translated to English.

But all the small clue when added up will help form a better opinion.

Received information this is not a date.....

rand

Battara · 10th August 2007, 08:13 PM

It also looks like you have at least one bismallah (name of God) and a Qur'anic verse.

Masterful work done on this - beautiful!

rand · 11th August 2007, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

It also looks like you have at least one bismallah (name of God) and a Qur'anic verse.

Masterful work done on this - beautiful!

Do you have an opinion as to the time period the calligraphy in the inscription was done on this kilij?

Thanks,

rand

Battara · 12th August 2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand

Do you have an opinion as to the time period the calligraphy in the inscription was done on this kilij?

Thanks,

rand

Unfortunately I don't have a clue (yes I am clueless

), sorry. However I can tell you that by what I can see in the pictures, there is a combination of true gold inlay and gold overlay - more like koftgari on the raised places.

rand · 12th August 2007, 07:34 PM

Hi Battara,

The kilij at start of thread is all gold inlay, its type of channel cut with gold pressed into it.

The use of koftgari did become more popular in the 13th-14th centuries when certain alloys were in short suppy, especially silver. This change is reflected on brass/bronze metalware of that period.

As far as Suleymans sword posted above I have no idea what type of gold application was done, but we can assume price was no object. Would be very interesting to find out the answer to your question.

Thanks,

rand

10th August 2007, 10:10 AM	#3
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Right, the figures look like 975 in Arabic numbers, but in a decorated way. Last edited by erlikhan; 10th August 2007 at 10:36 AM.

10th August 2007, 05:00 PM	#4
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Close ups Two more images of sword... Attached Images Last edited by rand; 10th August 2007 at 05:33 PM.

11th August 2007, 03:45 AM	#6
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Square Kufic Inscriptions Started this new thread when I realized I had deviated away from Artzi's thread on his kilijs with inscriptions. This sword has a different style calligraphy, its the same type calligraphy as the Quran was writen in. It is also the only calligraphy ever used to decorate the exterior of building, such as Samarkand. The calligraphy on this blade apprears to be in the square kufic style. http://www.sakkal.com/Arab_Calligraphy_Art6.html Square kufic alphabet http://www.sakkal.com/instrctn/sq_kufi_alphabet.html Above are links to examples of Square kufic script. rand

11th August 2007, 04:14 AM	#7
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	16th century sword with square kufic calligraphy The swords with the green ray skin on handle belonged to Sultan Selim I, 16th century. "Decorated with kufic inscriptions,resettes,rumi scrolls, palmettes, and tulip motifs" quote from Military Museum catalog. What I hope to start, is a gradual accumlation of datable inscriptions to help determine a time period for the date of these sword types. A typology of Islamic swords based on blade style, calligraphy, metallurgy, metalwork (such as types of inlay), art design progression, hilt styles, pommels, grip styles, grip scale materials, grip scale coverings, dimensions,weight, cross section of blade, crossguards, scabbard style and so on.... rand Attached Images Last edited by rand; 11th August 2007 at 04:39 AM.

11th August 2007, 04:24 AM	#8
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	16th century swords The technique used to inlay the gold on the 16th century swords posted above are unknown to me, The first kilij posted on this thread has a form of channel cut inlay used to make the inscriptions. The blade has the appearance of a raised section cartouche by chiseling away steel and a sharper curve to its blade when compared with Sultan Suleymans kilij. One thing to take note of is the 16th century swords above have animal skin wrapped over the handle. rand Last edited by rand; 11th August 2007 at 04:34 AM.

10th August 2007, 09:13 AM	#1
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	There might be a dating like 975 (16th c.) on the left cartuche, or the cartuche closest to the blade tip. Am I right?

10th August 2007, 08:13 PM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	It also looks like you have at least one bismallah (name of God) and a Qur'anic verse. Masterful work done on this - beautiful!

12th August 2007, 07:34 PM	#13
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Gold Inlay Hi Battara, The kilij at start of thread is all gold inlay, its type of channel cut with gold pressed into it. The use of koftgari did become more popular in the 13th-14th centuries when certain alloys were in short suppy, especially silver. This change is reflected on brass/bronze metalware of that period. As far as Suleymans sword posted above I have no idea what type of gold application was done, but we can assume price was no object. Would be very interesting to find out the answer to your question. Thanks, rand