PI Kris for ID and Comments

Spunjer · 7th March 2005, 02:02 AM

nice one, moose! have you tried etching the blade?

Federico · 7th March 2005, 04:59 AM

Seeing some of the inlay near the top, I wonder if it was at one point fully inlaid. But then, I suppose that could be said about many Moro swords with engraving, were they inlaid at one point, and polishing/etching/corrosion caused the grooves to shallow out. I know on my one kris with some remains of the inlay, many of the grooves seem as if they have shallowed out over the years for one reason or the other. Particularly when part of the inlay pops, then corrosion has a way of building up underneath making the rest want to pop out. Battara would have some great insights into inlay, as he has actually redone inlay on some swords. And if you are in the inlay commenting mood, what did you use to re-engrave the grooves, a graver, scribe, diamond tip engraver for a dremel, etc...? Ive been contemplating redoing the inlay or a sword, but many of the grooves have become to shallow, and need to be re-done.

Battara · 7th March 2005, 03:06 PM

I had to make my own gravers out of tempered steel, but small enough to fit into the grooves and re-ingrave the channels. Very time consuming process. And it is not just the depth but the angle of the cuts that is very important.

moose · 7th March 2005, 03:27 PM

Battara,
What are your thoughts about the golden metal inlaid on this kris?
Maker's Mark? Isn't it odd, the one piece inlaid in the long channel?

I think this is what Frederico is refering to when he wonders if the whole thing had been inlaid at onetime.

Spunjer,
No, I haven't tried etching it yet. I have done some lime juice etching on some daggers I'll be posting later.
I have purchaced some of the etchant Radio Shack sells and read up on previous threads. But I'm not ready to try something like that on this beauty.

Going to practice some more on some of my "less dear to my heart stuff" first.
Don't want any major mistakes.

moose

Battara · 8th March 2005, 03:27 AM

Moose, you have a wonderful piece there (envy, envy, grumble, grumble....). I know that some engraving on blades are too shallow to have been inlaid. On your piece I am surprised to see inlay. This may raise a whole new set of questions for me and for the field if inlay were common in the engraving of these blades and just popped out. I do not think this is a maker's mark (especially since Filipinos/Moros/Indonesians did not use maker's marks) but perhaps a talismanic design. I think there could be a good argument for your whole blade once being inlaid seeing the pics you have posted. The material is a little harder to discern from the pics, it could be gold, brass, or tarnished silver (which can get a yellow-brownish oxidation depending upon the grade of silver and environmental chemical exposure). It looks to me that the whole channel was once inlaid and that most of it popped out.

By the way, etch the puppy and see what surprises are in store for you.

Federico · 8th March 2005, 04:12 AM

Now Jose, if more Moro swords originally had inlays, then that means more collectors are gonna need to send you their swords for restoration

Anyways, I know what you mean about the shallow grooves. On my one kris with some inlay remaining, in many spots where the inlay has popped out the engraving is so shallow it is almost invisible. Id like to say oh this is the un-inlayed part, but then there is the matching star on the left that still has inlay. I suppose we could get inlay happy re-doing every sword with engraving, but it does make you wonder. Corrosion or on purpose.

moose · 8th March 2005, 12:11 PM

Now no one has mentioned the fiber wrapping on the second kris.
I would think that this could not be as old as the blade and ivory cockatoo. Maybe re-wrapped somewhere around or just before WWII?

Any thoughts on the material? What was commonly used? Jute?, palm fibers? Some other local fiber bearing plant? If around WWII maybe hemp?

moose

7th March 2005, 02:02 AM	#1
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	nice one, moose! have you tried etching the blade?

7th March 2005, 04:59 AM	#2
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Seeing some of the inlay near the top, I wonder if it was at one point fully inlaid. But then, I suppose that could be said about many Moro swords with engraving, were they inlaid at one point, and polishing/etching/corrosion caused the grooves to shallow out. I know on my one kris with some remains of the inlay, many of the grooves seem as if they have shallowed out over the years for one reason or the other. Particularly when part of the inlay pops, then corrosion has a way of building up underneath making the rest want to pop out. Battara would have some great insights into inlay, as he has actually redone inlay on some swords. And if you are in the inlay commenting mood, what did you use to re-engrave the grooves, a graver, scribe, diamond tip engraver for a dremel, etc...? Ive been contemplating redoing the inlay or a sword, but many of the grooves have become to shallow, and need to be re-done.

7th March 2005, 03:06 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	I had to make my own gravers out of tempered steel, but small enough to fit into the grooves and re-ingrave the channels. Very time consuming process. And it is not just the depth but the angle of the cuts that is very important.

7th March 2005, 03:27 PM	#4
moose Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portage, Michigan USA Posts: 44	Battara, What are your thoughts about the golden metal inlaid on this kris? Maker's Mark? Isn't it odd, the one piece inlaid in the long channel? I think this is what Frederico is refering to when he wonders if the whole thing had been inlaid at onetime. Spunjer, No, I haven't tried etching it yet. I have done some lime juice etching on some daggers I'll be posting later. I have purchaced some of the etchant Radio Shack sells and read up on previous threads. But I'm not ready to try something like that on this beauty. Going to practice some more on some of my "less dear to my heart stuff" first. Don't want any major mistakes. moose

8th March 2005, 03:27 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	Moose, you have a wonderful piece there (envy, envy, grumble, grumble....). I know that some engraving on blades are too shallow to have been inlaid. On your piece I am surprised to see inlay. This may raise a whole new set of questions for me and for the field if inlay were common in the engraving of these blades and just popped out. I do not think this is a maker's mark (especially since Filipinos/Moros/Indonesians did not use maker's marks) but perhaps a talismanic design. I think there could be a good argument for your whole blade once being inlaid seeing the pics you have posted. The material is a little harder to discern from the pics, it could be gold, brass, or tarnished silver (which can get a yellow-brownish oxidation depending upon the grade of silver and environmental chemical exposure). It looks to me that the whole channel was once inlaid and that most of it popped out. By the way, etch the puppy and see what surprises are in store for you.

8th March 2005, 04:12 AM	#6
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Now Jose, if more Moro swords originally had inlays, then that means more collectors are gonna need to send you their swords for restoration Anyways, I know what you mean about the shallow grooves. On my one kris with some inlay remaining, in many spots where the inlay has popped out the engraving is so shallow it is almost invisible. Id like to say oh this is the un-inlayed part, but then there is the matching star on the left that still has inlay. I suppose we could get inlay happy re-doing every sword with engraving, but it does make you wonder. Corrosion or on purpose.

8th March 2005, 12:11 PM	#7
moose Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portage, Michigan USA Posts: 44	Now no one has mentioned the fiber wrapping on the second kris. I would think that this could not be as old as the blade and ivory cockatoo. Maybe re-wrapped somewhere around or just before WWII? Any thoughts on the material? What was commonly used? Jute?, palm fibers? Some other local fiber bearing plant? If around WWII maybe hemp? moose