Cambodian Dhas

Ian · 11th July 2007, 02:22 AM

Hi Ariel:

Need better pics to give any sort of opinion. I think the third one you show is actually from a pole arm. There are Vietnamese and Thai pole weapons of similar form.

Note a similar example from Vietnam here: http://www.sevenstarstrading.com/art...page=vietsword Perhaps something in common with the mak used by the Montagnard of Vietnam, Laos, and possibly Cambodia. There are also Chinese pole arms of similar form that may be the inspiration for the form in SE Asia. Philip and Scott could no doubt contribute more on the Chinese connection.

Ian.

kai · 11th July 2007, 09:10 AM

Good catch, Ariel!

I'm also voting for polearm.

Regards,
Kai

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 11th July 2007, 12:22 PM

I'm not an expert but the scabbard and tsuba combinations are similar to the ones listed as Cambodian on Mark's website ( they're actually are part of Ian's collection ) . There's a picture of one of them on the History of Steel's website:

http://www.arscives.com/historysteel/images1/263-iag04.jpg

The turned wooden grip looks Thai ( Siamese ) and many modern Thai daab share this feature . The knife looks like a Thai priest knife and I would agree that the markings look Thai .

I think Ian's subsequent response would give you the definitive answer to your questions.

Andrew · 11th July 2007, 05:29 PM

I think Cambodian weapons are ripe for more research. Frankly, I have yet to really get a good appreciation for what, exactly, constitutes a "Cambodian" sword. Ian does have a few that defy easy insertion into the more familiar classification groups, but I think we've all tended to fall back on "Cambodian" as a default in such cases. Not to say the reasoning that gets us there isn't sound, just that it lacks extensive data to support it.

Ariel, I like this group of weapons very much. Thanks for sharing with us. If you ever want to part with that pole-arm/sword catcher, please contact me immediately!

Mark · 12th July 2007, 03:44 PM

The second one is very interesting. No opinion about it being a polearm blade, but it sounds plausible.

The features of a Cambodian dha are a sharp change or bend in the overall sweep of the sword between the blade and the handle, something Ian has identified, the presence often of a tsuba, and a scabbard with an upswept tip rather than the square or round ones seen in other dha. I don't think we have enough strongly-provenanced blades to really confirm whether these are consistent, nor indeed even if such swords are "Cambodian" (i.e., Khmer) as opposed to being of a Tai minority.

Jason Anstey · 13th July 2007, 07:09 AM

the first one does seem to have a Japanese appearance to the "tsuba" and basic blade shape. The tsuba has what looks to be an oval marking around the blade indicating it might have originally had a seppa (washer) also the oval hole is for a small utility knife (kozuka/ Kogatana).

I apologise if these are very obvious comments. If you were able to remove the handle to we can see the tang then maybe more info will come to light.

My guess is that it is a composite piece using an old japanese blade and tsuba?

Cheers

Jason

ariel · 13th July 2007, 05:08 PM

Jason,
Wish you were right.....
No, there is no chance this blade was made my Masamune, Muramasa or even the most undistiguished Japanese smith

This is a product of a very primitive village foundry, far, far away from Bizen...
No sense disassemmbling it.
The tsuba is , as you say, reminescent of a Japanese general geschtalt, but is definitely NOT Japanese either: its core is soft metal ( copper? I seem to see some reddish hue) and is clad on both sides with another metal that even peeled off the base. The decorative motives are pretty basic and technically simple over the weekend I shall gently clean them and see what transpires.
Hope to find an inscription " This belongs to Mr. Pol Pot. Pretty please do not touch. Or else...."

11th July 2007, 02:22 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Hi Ariel: Need better pics to give any sort of opinion. I think the third one you show is actually from a pole arm. There are Vietnamese and Thai pole weapons of similar form. Note a similar example from Vietnam here: http://www.sevenstarstrading.com/art...page=vietsword Perhaps something in common with the mak used by the Montagnard of Vietnam, Laos, and possibly Cambodia. There are also Chinese pole arms of similar form that may be the inspiration for the form in SE Asia. Philip and Scott could no doubt contribute more on the Chinese connection. Ian. Last edited by Ian; 11th July 2007 at 02:33 AM.

11th July 2007, 09:10 AM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Congrats! Good catch, Ariel! I'm also voting for polearm. Regards, Kai

11th July 2007, 12:22 PM	#3
~Alaung_Hpaya~ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 65	I'm not an expert but the scabbard and tsuba combinations are similar to the ones listed as Cambodian on Mark's website ( they're actually are part of Ian's collection ) . There's a picture of one of them on the History of Steel's website: http://www.arscives.com/historysteel/images1/263-iag04.jpg The turned wooden grip looks Thai ( Siamese ) and many modern Thai daab share this feature . The knife looks like a Thai priest knife and I would agree that the markings look Thai . I think Ian's subsequent response would give you the definitive answer to your questions.

11th July 2007, 05:29 PM	#4
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I think Cambodian weapons are ripe for more research. Frankly, I have yet to really get a good appreciation for what, exactly, constitutes a "Cambodian" sword. Ian does have a few that defy easy insertion into the more familiar classification groups, but I think we've all tended to fall back on "Cambodian" as a default in such cases. Not to say the reasoning that gets us there isn't sound, just that it lacks extensive data to support it. Ariel, I like this group of weapons very much. Thanks for sharing with us. If you ever want to part with that pole-arm/sword catcher, please contact me immediately!

12th July 2007, 03:44 PM	#5
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	The second one is very interesting. No opinion about it being a polearm blade, but it sounds plausible. The features of a Cambodian dha are a sharp change or bend in the overall sweep of the sword between the blade and the handle, something Ian has identified, the presence often of a tsuba, and a scabbard with an upswept tip rather than the square or round ones seen in other dha. I don't think we have enough strongly-provenanced blades to really confirm whether these are consistent, nor indeed even if such swords are "Cambodian" (i.e., Khmer) as opposed to being of a Tai minority.

13th July 2007, 07:09 AM	#6
Jason Anstey Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 102	the first one does seem to have a Japanese appearance to the "tsuba" and basic blade shape. The tsuba has what looks to be an oval marking around the blade indicating it might have originally had a seppa (washer) also the oval hole is for a small utility knife (kozuka/ Kogatana). I apologise if these are very obvious comments. If you were able to remove the handle to we can see the tang then maybe more info will come to light. My guess is that it is a composite piece using an old japanese blade and tsuba? Cheers Jason

13th July 2007, 05:08 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Jason, Wish you were right..... No, there is no chance this blade was made my Masamune, Muramasa or even the most undistiguished Japanese smith This is a product of a very primitive village foundry, far, far away from Bizen... No sense disassemmbling it. The tsuba is , as you say, reminescent of a Japanese general geschtalt, but is definitely NOT Japanese either: its core is soft metal ( copper? I seem to see some reddish hue) and is clad on both sides with another metal that even peeled off the base. The decorative motives are pretty basic and technically simple over the weekend I shall gently clean them and see what transpires. Hope to find an inscription " This belongs to Mr. Pol Pot. Pretty please do not touch. Or else...."