M a j a p a h i t R e v i s i t e d

Rick · 18th June 2007, 02:20 PM

Please, in the future if you wish to change the subject in an existing thread just start a new one; it is so much easier for all to follow rather than to transfer quotes .

Thank you all .

Rick

ganjawulung · 20th June 2007, 05:56 AM

Thank You, Rick,
I am so sorry for the incovenience I made...

Ganjawulung

Rick · 20th June 2007, 02:46 PM

No apology needed Ganjawulung

; I just made a gentle reminder to all our members to please try to stay on the topic of the original post in a thread.

Please feel free to continue with this new thread that you have started .

My best,

Rick

David · 20th June 2007, 04:00 PM

I agree with Rick. I have seen many threads of late vere off on tangents that have absolutely nothing to do with the original thread. There are many forums out there where the moderators will split such threads, but i (and i believe Rick as well) would rather not get that domineering in the conversation (nor do we have the time

) and sometimes these tangents will lead to something good. So as long as the conversation is civil and in the ballpark of keris or keris culture i am of the mind to let the discussions take theirown course. But if you have sometime new to say that is totally off the subject it is always best to open up a new thread right away. "If you build it, they will come."

PenangsangII · 26th June 2007, 05:58 AM

Hi all,

My trip to the National Library didnt yield anything WRT keris Jalak Sangu Tumpeng. However, a little information was found right under my nose in the compilation works of A.H. Hill in "The Keris and Other Malay Weapons" that the particular dapur was attributed ONLY to Mpu (Aria) Hanggareksa.

According to tutur tinular (unwritten folk lore), keris Jalak Sangu Tumpeng was commissioned by Ranggalawe who was both Singhasari & Majapahit nobleman.

ganjawulung · 28th June 2007, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

My trip to the National Library didnt yield anything WRT keris Jalak Sangu Tumpeng. However, a little information was found right under my nose in the compilation works of A.H. Hill in "The Keris and Other Malay Weapons" that the particular dapur was attributed ONLY to Mpu (Aria) Hanggareksa.

According to tutur tinular (unwritten folk lore), keris Jalak Sangu Tumpeng was commissioned by Ranggalawe who was both Singhasari & Majapahit nobleman.

Dear Penangsang,
According to an old Javanese book, "Panangguhing Duwung" (The Tangguh of Keris), King of Majapahit Prabu Brawijaya I commissioned keris with dapur of Jalak Sangutumpeng to Empu Hangga in Tapan in the Caka (Saka) year of 1303 or 1381 CE. (But this is confusing, because according to MC Ricklefs -- A History of Modern Indonesia Since c 1300 -- Brawijaya I or Kertawijaya reigned 1447-1451. There was discrepancy of more than 50 years...)

The Javanese text is as follows: "... Pandjenenganipoen nata Praboe Brawidjaja ingkang kapisan, ijasa dedamel, noeroen dedamel dapoer Djalaksangoetoempeng, kalijan dapoer Djalaksamelanggandring, saha dapoer Mangkoerat, toewin dapoer Mangkoenagara, ingkang damel Empoe Hangga ing Tapan, kala ing taoen tjandra-sangkala 1303.."

The translation, "His Majesty King Brawijaya the first, commissioned -- copying the dapur Jalak Sangutumpeng, and dapur Jalak Sumelang Gandring, dapur Mangkurat, and also dapur Mangkunagara. Was made by Empu Hangga from Tapan, in the Saka year of 1303..."

About who was Empu Hangga, the Javanese book told us that Empu Hangga was the grandson of the well known Pajajaran's Empu Marcukunda. Empu Hangga dwelled in Tapan.

During Majapahit era, Empu Hangga from Tapan changed name as Empu Singkir because of "wisik" (whispers) from the late Empu Anjani his grand-grand father, once in his dreaming.

Ganjawulung

A. G. Maisey · 29th June 2007, 12:25 AM

Pak Ganja, I don't know what year Panangguhing Dhuwung ( Mas Ngabehi Wirosoekadgo) was first published, but it mentions PB X, so it is clearly after about 1900, possibly even as late as the 1950's.Incidentally, the text you have quoted from Panangguhing Dhuwung, I cannot locate. I have a photocopy of the edition from the Mangkunegaraan library, and what looks like a second edition without the drawings of keris.I cannot find this text in either edition. Could you assist me by giving me a page number, or a heading? Thanks.

I would like to mention another book, "Silsilah Keturunan Empu Tanah Jawa" (Pangeran Wijil I)

When do we think this might have been written? Possibly during the 18th century?

I have never done an analysis of "Dhuwung". against "Silsilah", but my reading of both books seems to indicate that a major primary source for what is in "Dhuwung" is Pangeran Wijil's work, this would apply most especially to early periods.If not directly drawn from "Silsilah", it is probably reasonable to assume that it is indirectly drawn from that, because by the time Panangguhing was written, the contents of "Silsilah" had already passed into the belief system

If Silsilah Keturunan Empu Tanah Jawa was written in the 18th century, that means it was written 400 years after the period when Empu Hangga might have existed.

One must query the sources upon which Pangeran Wijil might have drawn to produce his work, one must also consider the social and political motivation for the production of "Silsilah".

As to whom Empu Hangga was, this is Empu Angga , son of Empu Manca, grandson of Marcukunda, great grandson of Empu Anjani, brother of Empus Kuwung, Keleng, and Sombro. Empu Angga's line continued with Empu Jigja, his son, but stopped with his grandson, Empu Mandangkara.Empu Keleng's line continued all the way through to Empu Lujuguna IV, and Empu Maragati. This is from Pangeran Wijil's Silsilah.

Possibly it may serve our knowledge of the keris better were we to acknowledge that the "history" of the keris, as preserved in Javanese popular belief has its roots in the writings of court scribes, beginning no earlier than the Kartosuro era. Enquiry into the social and political conditions which prevailed in Jawa during this period may be useful in gaining an understanding of the roots of keris history as a part of Javanese popular belief.

18th June 2007, 02:20 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Gentlemen Please, in the future if you wish to change the subject in an existing thread just start a new one; it is so much easier for all to follow rather than to transfer quotes . Thank you all . Rick

26th June 2007, 05:58 AM	#5
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Jalak Sangu Tumpeng Hi all, My trip to the National Library didnt yield anything WRT keris Jalak Sangu Tumpeng. However, a little information was found right under my nose in the compilation works of A.H. Hill in "The Keris and Other Malay Weapons" that the particular dapur was attributed ONLY to Mpu (Aria) Hanggareksa. According to tutur tinular (unwritten folk lore), keris Jalak Sangu Tumpeng was commissioned by Ranggalawe who was both Singhasari & Majapahit nobleman.

20th June 2007, 05:56 AM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Thank You, Rick, I am so sorry for the incovenience I made... Ganjawulung

20th June 2007, 02:46 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	No apology needed Ganjawulung ; I just made a gentle reminder to all our members to please try to stay on the topic of the original post in a thread. Please feel free to continue with this new thread that you have started . My best, Rick

20th June 2007, 04:00 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,227	I agree with Rick. I have seen many threads of late vere off on tangents that have absolutely nothing to do with the original thread. There are many forums out there where the moderators will split such threads, but i (and i believe Rick as well) would rather not get that domineering in the conversation (nor do we have the time ) and sometimes these tangents will lead to something good. So as long as the conversation is civil and in the ballpark of keris or keris culture i am of the mind to let the discussions take theirown course. But if you have sometime new to say that is totally off the subject it is always best to open up a new thread right away. "If you build it, they will come."

29th June 2007, 12:25 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,043	Pak Ganja, I don't know what year Panangguhing Dhuwung ( Mas Ngabehi Wirosoekadgo) was first published, but it mentions PB X, so it is clearly after about 1900, possibly even as late as the 1950's.Incidentally, the text you have quoted from Panangguhing Dhuwung, I cannot locate. I have a photocopy of the edition from the Mangkunegaraan library, and what looks like a second edition without the drawings of keris.I cannot find this text in either edition. Could you assist me by giving me a page number, or a heading? Thanks. I would like to mention another book, "Silsilah Keturunan Empu Tanah Jawa" (Pangeran Wijil I) When do we think this might have been written? Possibly during the 18th century? I have never done an analysis of "Dhuwung". against "Silsilah", but my reading of both books seems to indicate that a major primary source for what is in "Dhuwung" is Pangeran Wijil's work, this would apply most especially to early periods.If not directly drawn from "Silsilah", it is probably reasonable to assume that it is indirectly drawn from that, because by the time Panangguhing was written, the contents of "Silsilah" had already passed into the belief system If Silsilah Keturunan Empu Tanah Jawa was written in the 18th century, that means it was written 400 years after the period when Empu Hangga might have existed. One must query the sources upon which Pangeran Wijil might have drawn to produce his work, one must also consider the social and political motivation for the production of "Silsilah". As to whom Empu Hangga was, this is Empu Angga , son of Empu Manca, grandson of Marcukunda, great grandson of Empu Anjani, brother of Empus Kuwung, Keleng, and Sombro. Empu Angga's line continued with Empu Jigja, his son, but stopped with his grandson, Empu Mandangkara.Empu Keleng's line continued all the way through to Empu Lujuguna IV, and Empu Maragati. This is from Pangeran Wijil's Silsilah. Possibly it may serve our knowledge of the keris better were we to acknowledge that the "history" of the keris, as preserved in Javanese popular belief has its roots in the writings of court scribes, beginning no earlier than the Kartosuro era. Enquiry into the social and political conditions which prevailed in Jawa during this period may be useful in gaining an understanding of the roots of keris history as a part of Javanese popular belief.