Tibetan sword: real?????

Michael Blalock · 10th June 2007, 11:48 PM

The sword could be genuine. They have a lot of very overpriced genuine looking antiquies, as much as $99,000.00 buy it now, then there are the $39.00 rugs. I think the stuff over a couple of hundred is just there to get hits on their site. If you go to their website they specialize in mass produced rugs. I would be supprised if you bid you would win the sword. There is another Chinese survey equipment company that does the same thing. They produce a cheap instument and also sell quality ones at a very high price, which only seem to be pruchased by chinese.

spiral · 11th June 2007, 12:22 AM

I reckon if you bid $2000 on one of those at least half fake rusty bits of junk sword they will be happy to let you have it!

There multiple thousand dollar pieces of Antique Tibetan woodwork, I can see are brand new, like within last few months. {I used to work as a cabinet maker.} So perhaps Ariel is right.

If even the blades are fake, its the realist fake pitting Ive ever seen. Or is it? I guess the best fakes are never recognised as such.

Thats a sobering thought.

Spiral

BBJW · 11th June 2007, 02:57 PM

Obvious fake. Scabbard looks cheesy and blade shape isn't right.

bbjw

josh stout · 11th June 2007, 06:43 PM

I looked at all of the blades and they look genuine. However, in the condition they are in, they would not cost much as just the blade in Tibet. The scabbards have a bit of variation in what is fake and what is not. As mentioned the stones and coral look dyed, and there are many relatively recent additions and repairs. There was one blade with unfortunate fittings that even has the rare "jelly role" folding pattern like the one toward the bottom of this page (http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/tibet/index.html). The swords are clearly not worth the asking price, but they are not completely fake either. I would say these are typical of many Chinese dealers on eBay or elsewhere. Some things are real, while some things are not. Let the buyer beware. Due to the bad condition of the blades and mixed age of the fittings I would say these are overpriced by about a factor of ten.
Josh

dennee · 11th June 2007, 07:49 PM

I wouldn't judge based on dyed coral; the practice of dying coral goes way back. Tibetans, far from the sea, were naturally importing it and even by the turn of the twentieth century, they were getting, indirectly, coral dyed in Italy, I believe.

But overall condition is something to attend to. Because coral and turquoise were so prized and reusable for all sorts of decoration (swords, rings, headdresses, necklaces, saddles, etc.) I find that authentic old swords probably usually have the stones removed, as they were a portable bit of wealth that one need not give up when parting with a blade.

spiral · 11th June 2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennee

Tibetans, far from the sea, were naturally importing it and even by the turn of the twentieth century, they were getting, indirectly, coral dyed in Italy, I believe.

.

I dont think I have ever seen a real red coral inlay yet.

Coralite or Coraline limestone occur in Nepal , Tibet & Bhutan,That was the typicle material used.

It might be a long way from the see today but the Himalayan mountains are full of Ammonites & other sea fossils. Times change the landscape.

Turquise & for the last many years howlite dyed blue or green & also red are also common fakes for both turquise & so called red coral.

Carnelian also is often used for weapons inlay & usualy mistakenly reffered to as red coral.

Spiral

josh stout · 12th June 2007, 04:12 PM

Those are some interesting insights on stones. I can tell something is recent when the colors are very bright, but now I realize older stones might have that faded look precisely because they were dyed with older dyes that fade. What do you think of this one? It is genuine, but what is it?

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...ation378-1.jpg

Also, I was thinking about the idea that these blades could be recent forgeries, and why I suspect not. I realized that modern Chinese pattern welds while seeming complex and labor intensive like traditional pattern welds, have one major difference. The modern ones are ground into the shape of a blade, while even simple piled rod construction as seen on Tibetan pieces requires the blade to be forged into shape. This is a much more skilled process than simply grinding to shape, and is why hairpin folding on a blade is still evidence of authenticity.
Josh

11th June 2007, 02:57 PM	#3
BBJW Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Idaho, USA Posts: 228	Obvious fake Obvious fake. Scabbard looks cheesy and blade shape isn't right. bbjw

10th June 2007, 11:48 PM	#1
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	The sword could be genuine. They have a lot of very overpriced genuine looking antiquies, as much as $99,000.00 buy it now, then there are the $39.00 rugs. I think the stuff over a couple of hundred is just there to get hits on their site. If you go to their website they specialize in mass produced rugs. I would be supprised if you bid you would win the sword. There is another Chinese survey equipment company that does the same thing. They produce a cheap instument and also sell quality ones at a very high price, which only seem to be pruchased by chinese.

11th June 2007, 12:22 AM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I reckon if you bid $2000 on one of those at least half fake rusty bits of junk sword they will be happy to let you have it! There multiple thousand dollar pieces of Antique Tibetan woodwork, I can see are brand new, like within last few months. {I used to work as a cabinet maker.} So perhaps Ariel is right. If even the blades are fake, its the realist fake pitting Ive ever seen. Or is it? I guess the best fakes are never recognised as such. Thats a sobering thought. Spiral

11th June 2007, 06:43 PM	#4
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	I looked at all of the blades and they look genuine. However, in the condition they are in, they would not cost much as just the blade in Tibet. The scabbards have a bit of variation in what is fake and what is not. As mentioned the stones and coral look dyed, and there are many relatively recent additions and repairs. There was one blade with unfortunate fittings that even has the rare "jelly role" folding pattern like the one toward the bottom of this page (http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/tibet/index.html). The swords are clearly not worth the asking price, but they are not completely fake either. I would say these are typical of many Chinese dealers on eBay or elsewhere. Some things are real, while some things are not. Let the buyer beware. Due to the bad condition of the blades and mixed age of the fittings I would say these are overpriced by about a factor of ten. Josh

11th June 2007, 07:49 PM	#5
dennee Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: College Park, MD Posts: 186	I wouldn't judge based on dyed coral; the practice of dying coral goes way back. Tibetans, far from the sea, were naturally importing it and even by the turn of the twentieth century, they were getting, indirectly, coral dyed in Italy, I believe. But overall condition is something to attend to. Because coral and turquoise were so prized and reusable for all sorts of decoration (swords, rings, headdresses, necklaces, saddles, etc.) I find that authentic old swords probably usually have the stones removed, as they were a portable bit of wealth that one need not give up when parting with a blade.

12th June 2007, 04:12 PM	#7
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Those are some interesting insights on stones. I can tell something is recent when the colors are very bright, but now I realize older stones might have that faded look precisely because they were dyed with older dyes that fade. What do you think of this one? It is genuine, but what is it? http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...ation378-1.jpg Also, I was thinking about the idea that these blades could be recent forgeries, and why I suspect not. I realized that modern Chinese pattern welds while seeming complex and labor intensive like traditional pattern welds, have one major difference. The modern ones are ground into the shape of a blade, while even simple piled rod construction as seen on Tibetan pieces requires the blade to be forged into shape. This is a much more skilled process than simply grinding to shape, and is why hairpin folding on a blade is still evidence of authenticity. Josh