Valentino's Collection of Oriental Arms

[B.I]

I have the auction catalogue of the sale of Valentinos estate after his death in the mid 1920s. His collection of arms consisted of a couple of hundred lots (from memory, I dont have it in front of me). Many of these were Oriental, as he had a personal passion of Orientalism (hence the full size oil painting of himself in costume). Unfortunately, only a few were photographed in the catalogue. I have a few more images, which I will scan in later. His house was called 'Falcons Lair' and it was here that he housed his collection. Images are poor unfortunately, but am sure many of his pieces found their way onto the open market, with all provenance now lost.

[Battara]

Interesting - didn't know he was interested........Is there a catalog somewhere?

[B.I]

Unfortunately not. Only the original 1920s auction catalogue which lists each item, but with only a small handful of images (not much more than I have already shown).
Shame as his collection (European as well as Oriental) was fairly extensive.
This catalogue also lists his properties (inc the Falcons Lair), his horses, hunting dogs, art, film costmes etc.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi B.I.
Thats fantastic! and not at all surprising with his presence in portraying exotic characters. Southern California in those early years with the beginnings of the movie industry actually stockpiled tons of props, costumes and weaponry, much of it actually authentic. I recall in the late 60's that some weapons collectors hit the jackpot when some of the movie studios unloaded some of the heaps of these weapons held in boxes in prop departments. I'm sure that Valentino got his pick of many of these.
Best regards,
Jim

[ariel]

Valentino was a star of "exotic" movies, and often appeared as "sheikh" or suchlike. Probably he either got genuinely fascinated by the "oriental" exotica or just cultivated an "oriental" persona: kind of public relations shtick Is Johnny Depp collecting Caribbean pirate stuff?
Interesting where all these pieces went....

[Tim Simmons]

Ooooh !!! pierce my heart ducky.

[Jeff D]

Oooh... a stab in my side.

I bought this dussage in the late 90's, it was said to be an ex-Valentino. Turns out the blade is old (maybe) but the hilt was E.B Erickson's work that someone artificially aged. Oh well Eljay's work sells for about the same that i paid. .

All the best.
Jeff

[B.I]

The sale was in 1926, in Hollywood. The collection was seen by the curator of the Met (most likely Bashford Dean) and someone called 'Charles of London', who both remarked of the rarity and importance of some of the pieces. From the listings, it seems he was more a collector, than a passing orientalist during a time when being so was fashionable.
I have a few more images of the European arms, which I will scan and post.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi B.I.
You're right, he probably was more involved than being simply an Orientalist, and most likely acquired under via well informed assistance. Many actors
seriously assimilate into the roles they play, and authentic weapons would have been an ideal vehicle to generate such feeling. I know that personally my entry into collecting antique weapons was borne out of love of history, probably as most of us here, and holding an authentic weapon from a period or even possibly from a certain battle, sent my imagination into overdrive!!

Jeff,
When I knew Eljay in California back in the 70's I was always amazed as his astounding ability in repairing the weapons he would acquire. That grew into his ability to fashion entire hilts, which as noted, are remarkably authentic. He told me once that he always marked or stamped his work so that it would not end up being misrepresented, however, as seen here, some subsequent owners of the work seem to have overridden that effort. As you have noted,
to have one of his pieces is a pleasure in its own right.

All the best,
Jim

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi BI,
Interesting thread you have started - who would have guessed?
I think there may have been others with the same 'interests', but it is facinating that you have the catalogue.
Jeff, Interesting piece you show, I wish I could see your collection - hidden agenda.
All the best
Jens

[Jeff D]

Hi All,

Thanks Jim, Eljay did email me on where to look for his mark but there is absolutely no sign of it anymore. It woud be interesting if R.V. had a similar sword in his collection? It couldn't have been Eljays work, OR COULD IT! Isn't there a movie about an immortal swordsman? .

Hi Jens, there is a way to see my collection but it would mean heading west in August .

All the Best
Jeff

[B.I]

Jeff,
There were 91 lots of arms (not a couple of hundred, as my memory falsley served) and none of them fit your sword. The descriptions are pretty thorough, and the sale was directly after his death, and included what seemed to be all of his possessions.
Jim,
I dont think RV was alone. Cant remember the actors name (not Thief of Baghdad, but something similar??) but he owned three of the most important Oriental swords that have ever hit the market. Three Sulyaman swords of outstanding, world class quality that rocked the collecting world when they appeared un-photographed in an obscure Los Angeles sale. The lesser of the three is now in the Met, and is one of their most important finds.
Pretty much what we all dream of finding one day
Jens,
Yes, obscure, even for me. Was tipped off a few years back about him, and chased the lead down until I found someone with the catalogue. Always worth following through as you never know what you can find!

EDIT -
Jim - Rex Ingram!!!!
Was annoyingly at the tip of my tongue! He aquired them from TE Lawrence. Stunning pieces!

[Jeff D]

Originally Posted by B.I

Jeff,
There were 91 lots of arms (not a couple of hundred, as my memory falsley served) and none of them fit your sword.

Thanks B.I. ,
I guess Eljay isn't "the one"

All the best and I look forward to any other scans.
Jeff

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Jeff,
LOL!
Eljay is an incredible craftsman, but immortal? I will tell you that he and I met under extraordinary circumstances and years later again, in much the same way. It is truly a much smaller world than we realize.

Thanks B.I. for thinking of the name! It would have driven me nuts I kept thinking of Ronald Coleman or Douglas Fairbanks, or even Basil Rathbone. These swashbucklers were all outstanding swordsmen, especially Rathbone who was a master, and hated having to lose since he was always the villain.

In one of the photos, a sabre that appears to be a kilij, looks like one of those coral covered pieces from the Maghreb.

Thank you for sharing this interesting catalog and discussion, sure brings back lots of earlier memories from California.....wish I would have started collecting earlier, even the 60s was pretty late.

All the best,
Jim

[B.I]

This is the last of the images.