Arsenic or realgar for Keris etching?

Tatyana Dianova · 19th May 2007, 12:20 PM

It seems to be a clean arsenic.

David · 19th May 2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

It seems to be a clean arsenic.

I don't understand what you mean by "clean".

Marcokeris · 19th May 2007, 05:13 PM

Tatyana is this mineral heavy or light? Hard or soft?
If it is heavy and hard, pay attention don't put fire near the mineral: his vapour is dangerous (poison: smell like garlic)

Tatyana Dianova · 19th May 2007, 05:41 PM

I don't have bought any of these minerals yet, so I can't tell. I just have seen some so called "gediegen arsen", what translates like "sterling arsenic" on German eBay. On pictures it lookes like dark grey mineral, maybe similar to earth. Sometimes it have inclusions of silver in it. It is a local mineral from Ore Mountains in Saxony. Alas, I haven't saved any pictures, and at the moment there is none of it offered...

Boedhi Adhitya · 19th May 2007, 06:21 PM

Tatyana, if you are using realgar, always use the red or deep oranges with some yellow ones. The less the yellow, the better. the deeper the red and orange, the better. Purple is the best, but it's hard to find. The good one should shows crystalline structure, and easy to pulverize using the pestle and mortar. As Marcokeris already warn, it would quickly transfered to a poisonous arsenic gas if you burn it. Never try the white or gray, or pure yellow. Pulverize and mix it with the lime juice, and let it rest for at least a night before use. During use, the the solution's color may change to a brownish color. The older the solution, the deeper the color. Do not throw away the old solution. It's a 'babon warangan', or 'mother solution'. If you use the brushing technique, you should mix the babon with some new one. Immersion technique use a deep brown, almost black solution. Finding the right solution is part of the art. Keep away the solution from oil, copper alloy and soap. Just put some rusty nail and let it rest for a night to make an old solution from the new one, quickly.

Happy marangi, and beware of it's health hazard.

cannext · 5th June 2007, 10:45 PM

"gediegen arsen" is german for metalic arsenic ,gediegen means pure some metals are found this way for instance gold silver or copper.
Hope this helps ,enjoy F.

ganjawulung · 10th August 2009, 07:57 AM

Did you use the "sterling arsenic" to stain your Bali blade?

GANJAWULUNG

Tatyana Dianova · 10th August 2009, 08:33 AM

I still have the "sterling arsenic" hidden in the dark corner, but I haven't tried it yet. Really I do not have a good working place to use it safely... The Bali blade was stained on Bali: Mr. Michael Wahle from Bali-Artshop in Germany has brought it on Bali and gave to (-I believe-) Mr. Ketut Karang for staining and sheath making...

semar · 10th August 2009, 09:23 AM

hello Tatyana

when you buy warangan its have to look like the warangan one the picteurs
you can buy many warangan but you can not use every warangan to clean your keris some even don`t work

regards semar

A. G. Maisey · 10th August 2009, 11:23 AM

Over more than 30 years I have purchased and used traditional warangan in Solo.

It has never looked like any of the examples I've seen photos of here.

The warangan that has been available in Solo over the last couple of years has been very inconsistent in producing satisfactory results.

Since the early 1960's, and predating my use of Javanese warangan I have used laboratory grade arsenic tri-oxide. This has invariably produced very satisfactory and very consistent results.

Here are examples of these results:-

ganjawulung · 11th August 2009, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

I still have the "sterling arsenic" hidden in the dark corner, but I haven't tried it yet. Really I do not have a good working place to use it safely... The Bali blade was stained on Bali: Mr. Michael Wahle from Bali-Artshop in Germany has brought it on Bali and gave to (-I believe-) Mr. Ketut Karang for staining and sheath making...

Staining is such an "art". I don't even stain my kerises by myself, although I have "warangan jadi" (ready to use warangan) and I can stain kerises by myself. You need at least all day long, non-stop free time to stain your kerises. Not including cleaning first your blade from rust with coconut's water for couple of days, and then your blades need to be processed with 'mutih' -- brushed and brushed, again and again with 'jeruk nipis' (lime juice) mixed with cream-soap (sorry, I have difficulty in explaining the process). Anyway, staining is not that simple -- just soak the blade into the ready-to-use-warangan... Usually I clean my self the keris blades, and then 'mutih' the kerises. But then, I gave the further process of 'mewarangi' to the specialist.

There are a couple of 'ahli warangan' or keris staining specialists in Jakarta, and of course in Solo, Yogyakarta, Surabaya, Madura, Bali...

Quote:

Originally Posted by semar

this warangan that i show you
comes from a friend of my from surabaya
mij friend cleaning the keris for a living
and i think whem you cleaning the keris everyday
you know wich warangan works the best

Yes, usually I bought warangan (more precise, 'chinese' warangan) from Surabayanese friends too. In Solo, people used to buy at a special shop, traditional herb shop such as Akar Sari in Coyudan, not far from Karaton Solo but not as good quality as 'chinese' warangan from Surabaya and Jakarta. I have example of two kinds of warangan. People said, the 'yellowish' one is better...

GANJAWULUNG

A. G. Maisey · 11th August 2009, 04:25 AM

The biggest supplier of warangan in Solo is a "Shop With No Name" --- but everybody knows it as "Toko Vera", in Pasar Gede , one street west of the market. This shop wholesales to other shops in Solo and also sells retail.

Unless somebody is buying outside of Solo and bringing the stuff into Solo themselves, they will be getting their supplies from Toko Vera.

For a long, long time Toko Vera had drums of warangan that was very good stuff, and back a few years, it was not really all that expensive, however, the old stuff eventually ran out, and the only new stuff they could get was from India. As I have already remarked, this new stuff is not very reliable --- sometimes you can get an acceptable job from it, but other times you cannot --- and it is not cheap.

5th June 2007, 10:45 PM	#6
cannext Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2	"gediegen arsen" "gediegen arsen" is german for metalic arsenic ,gediegen means pure some metals are found this way for instance gold silver or copper. Hope this helps ,enjoy F.

10th August 2009, 09:23 AM	#9
semar Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 272	hello Tatyana when you buy warangan its have to look like the warangan one the picteurs you can buy many warangan but you can not use every warangan to clean your keris some even don`t work regards semar Attached Images

10th August 2009, 11:23 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Over more than 30 years I have purchased and used traditional warangan in Solo. It has never looked like any of the examples I've seen photos of here. The warangan that has been available in Solo over the last couple of years has been very inconsistent in producing satisfactory results. Since the early 1960's, and predating my use of Javanese warangan I have used laboratory grade arsenic tri-oxide. This has invariably produced very satisfactory and very consistent results. Here are examples of these results:- Attached Images

19th May 2007, 12:20 PM	#1
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 734	It seems to be a clean arsenic.

19th May 2007, 05:13 PM	#3
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Tatyana is this mineral heavy or light? Hard or soft? If it is heavy and hard, pay attention don't put fire near the mineral: his vapour is dangerous (poison: smell like garlic)

19th May 2007, 05:41 PM	#4
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 734	I don't have bought any of these minerals yet, so I can't tell. I just have seen some so called "gediegen arsen", what translates like "sterling arsenic" on German eBay. On pictures it lookes like dark grey mineral, maybe similar to earth. Sometimes it have inclusions of silver in it. It is a local mineral from Ore Mountains in Saxony. Alas, I haven't saved any pictures, and at the moment there is none of it offered...

19th May 2007, 06:21 PM	#5
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Tatyana, if you are using realgar, always use the red or deep oranges with some yellow ones. The less the yellow, the better. the deeper the red and orange, the better. Purple is the best, but it's hard to find. The good one should shows crystalline structure, and easy to pulverize using the pestle and mortar. As Marcokeris already warn, it would quickly transfered to a poisonous arsenic gas if you burn it. Never try the white or gray, or pure yellow. Pulverize and mix it with the lime juice, and let it rest for at least a night before use. During use, the the solution's color may change to a brownish color. The older the solution, the deeper the color. Do not throw away the old solution. It's a 'babon warangan', or 'mother solution'. If you use the brushing technique, you should mix the babon with some new one. Immersion technique use a deep brown, almost black solution. Finding the right solution is part of the art. Keep away the solution from oil, copper alloy and soap. Just put some rusty nail and let it rest for a night to make an old solution from the new one, quickly. Happy marangi, and beware of it's health hazard.

10th August 2009, 07:57 AM	#7
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Did you use the "sterling arsenic" to stain your Bali blade? GANJAWULUNG

10th August 2009, 08:33 AM	#8
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 734	I still have the "sterling arsenic" hidden in the dark corner, but I haven't tried it yet. Really I do not have a good working place to use it safely... The Bali blade was stained on Bali: Mr. Michael Wahle from Bali-Artshop in Germany has brought it on Bali and gave to (-I believe-) Mr. Ketut Karang for staining and sheath making...

11th August 2009, 04:25 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	The biggest supplier of warangan in Solo is a "Shop With No Name" --- but everybody knows it as "Toko Vera", in Pasar Gede , one street west of the market. This shop wholesales to other shops in Solo and also sells retail. Unless somebody is buying outside of Solo and bringing the stuff into Solo themselves, they will be getting their supplies from Toko Vera. For a long, long time Toko Vera had drums of warangan that was very good stuff, and back a few years, it was not really all that expensive, however, the old stuff eventually ran out, and the only new stuff they could get was from India. As I have already remarked, this new stuff is not very reliable --- sometimes you can get an acceptable job from it, but other times you cannot --- and it is not cheap.