20th Century Solonese Keris

Raden Usman Djogja · 18th May 2007, 07:40 PM

Gonjo,

Yes, imho, sukandi needs to do that. It's good for all stakeholders, even to keris itself.

As Alan said "over the years a number of less than honest dealers have marketed keris in the western world as the product of one or another of the better known makers, when in fact these keris were the product of lesser known people, and in some cases were low quality blades from Madura or Surabaya."

When I received my commisioned keris, I received its certificate, too. I think it's an improvement to deal within (cons) piracy era.

ganjawulung · 19th May 2007, 02:58 AM

But Raden,

Usually, keris makers are people with traditional attitude. In someway: a little bit anti-modernism. Mr Sukamdi too. Very-very traditional. He likes to sleep in cemetery, watching stars and moon, long haired and not tidy. Of course, doesn't think to patent his "invention" on dhapur. Not only this new dhapur he had created. I keep one other dhapur, maybe it called "sepang luk". Keris with sor-soran sepang, but with seven luks upward.

Sukamdi seems to learn hard all the pakems of kerises. So, everytime he invented or created a new model or dhapur, always based on pakem but modified with "philosophical" reason. Like the "peksi dewata" dhapur, actually he made this model after he was looking at my mata tombak (spears). I remember, he turned the tombak upside down, and show me a kind of hidden carving, showing two birds with jambul. I think it was "peacock" bird. Quite long time, he watched that ornament in my old tombak (dhapur baru kuping, tombak with two "ears" in sor-soran). Upside down the kuping, Sukamdi saw ornament of two birds. And some months later, he made this dhapur. I bought this Sukamdi keris from the first hand owner, Kanjeng Raden Tumenggung Benny (sorry I forgot his last name)...

I don't think people like Sukamdi is thinking about patenting his keris model. Maybe there must be someone else who may encourage him to do that. Otherwise, people won't know that such dhapur is his.

Like motives of pamor. Who can claim to patent the pattern? If you see in the website, the development of pamors (patterns) in damascus steel is incredible. Event they can comercialized the pamor itself, and sell the pamor by inch per inch, in such dollar... Just watch the website of Devin Thomas (please http://www.devinthomas.com see the products)

Yes, they are machinal. But in a certain way, keris world now is far behind the development of damascus steel world. At least in commercialization of the new product. This world of keris is still looking back and admiring at the past all the time. Yes, of course "describing the past, inscribing the future", like the thesis of Dr Nancy Florida (specialised in Javanese litterature of Ranga sasmita -- not Ranggawarsito -- on Babad Jaka Tingkir). But actually, we must not forget to look forward, the future...

Ganjawulung

Alam Shah · 19th May 2007, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

... I don't think people like Sukamdi is thinking about patenting his keris model. Maybe there must be someone else who may encourage him to do that. Otherwise, people won't know that such dhapur is his....

Perhaps a few write-up in Keris and Pamor magazines might introduce his creation to the public.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

... Yes, they are mechanical. But in a certain way, keris world now is far behind the development of damascus steel world. At least in commercialization of the new product. This world of keris is still looking back and admiring at the past all the time. Yes, of course "describing the past, inscribing the future"... But actually, we must not forget to look forward, the future...

True to a certain extend. But bear in minds that although The Indonesian Keris had been proclaimed by UNESCO, (as a Masterpiece of the Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity, there's still a long way to promote it on a global scale. Worldwide appeal is in its infant stage.

SNKI, (National Indonesian Keris Secretariat, established on 12 March 2006), would have to play its part as a promoter of keris. It would have to be done from the inside-out. At times goes by, hopefully, keris makers and its related industry prosper to meet global demands when the time comes (being optimistic)

.

The big Haryono's Keris Book, (once translated and made available), would help spur the interest worldwide. Increase in awareness and appreciation of the keris as an art object, would be one of the vital point to ensure the keris industry survival.
Just my 2 cents vision.

BluErf · 19th May 2007, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

But Raden,
Yes, they are machinal. But in a certain way, keris world now is far behind the development of damascus steel world. At least in commercialization of the new product. This world of keris is still looking back and admiring at the past all the time. Yes, of course "describing the past, inscribing the future", like the thesis of Dr Nancy Florida (specialised in Javanese litterature of Ranga sasmita -- not Ranggawarsito -- on Babad Jaka Tingkir). But actually, we must not forget to look forward, the future...

Ganjawulung

Hmmm... no doubt machine-made damascus patterns can be very fine and fancy (I've seen a piece that depicted santa claus on his rein-deern sleigh!), The "spiritual" and "human" connection is gone. Almost like instead of having Monet paint a picture, we get a computer to generate the image and print it. Feeling's not quite the same. The accomplishment "by hand" of the keris-maker is no longer there.

I think keris-making can advance, through innovation in pamor, dapur and in the keris sheaths and hilts. Tools used can be modern, but the process should be guided directly by the human hand and spirit, rather than an algorithm keyed into a machine that produces the item.

Well, maybe I'm just old-fashioned.

ganjawulung · 19th May 2007, 07:00 AM

Alam Shah,

Thanks a lot, for the positive suggestion. Of course, I will bear it in my mind your positive comments. And also, the "spiritual and human" vision of BluErf.. That's good for the development of this keris world..

Raden Usman Djogja · 19th May 2007, 08:31 AM

Gonjo,

That is a weakness of traditional-keris-smith facing with modern system. however, if snki, stsi or local government know and realize about it, who knows one of them will do something benefitting to all.

According to shape/dhapur "SEPANG LUK", I would like to inform you that I have one keris: tangguh/period expected:: MAJAPAHIT and shape/dhapur: SEPANG URUBING DAMAR (there are 3 luks on the top of blade). So, sepang with luks is no new. The new one is, perhaps, sepang with 7 luks. Then, Sukamdi creation is still able to be patented. Fortunately, I bring it (Sepang Urubing Damar) to Africa where I live now. Therefore, if any kerislover wants to have a look, perhaps, I could take and share a picture of it.

Usmen

ganjawulung · 19th May 2007, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

Therefore, if any kerislover wants to have a look, perhaps, I could take and share a picture of it.

Please Raden,

I want to look at your "sepang urubing damar".. Every sepang has its own beauty. One of the "everybody likes" dhapurs..

David · 19th May 2007, 05:13 PM

Wow! This conversation is great! This is important stuff to consider for the continuence of the keris art. I would love to encourage more talk on these matters.

Maybe it is just the anarchist in me, but i do have a bit of a problem seeing any kind of artform patented. I think it is up to the buyer to be able to determine if they are buying real and quality items and putting a patent on a keris dhapur in no way insured that it won't be copied anyway. Just look at all the fake Guccis in the fashion world.
Keris makers today are certainly creating new keris with old dhapurs, dhapurs that were never "patented".

18th May 2007, 07:40 PM	#1
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Gonjo, Yes, imho, sukandi needs to do that. It's good for all stakeholders, even to keris itself. As Alan said "over the years a number of less than honest dealers have marketed keris in the western world as the product of one or another of the better known makers, when in fact these keris were the product of lesser known people, and in some cases were low quality blades from Madura or Surabaya." When I received my commisioned keris, I received its certificate, too. I think it's an improvement to deal within (cons) piracy era.

19th May 2007, 02:58 AM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	But Raden, Usually, keris makers are people with traditional attitude. In someway: a little bit anti-modernism. Mr Sukamdi too. Very-very traditional. He likes to sleep in cemetery, watching stars and moon, long haired and not tidy. Of course, doesn't think to patent his "invention" on dhapur. Not only this new dhapur he had created. I keep one other dhapur, maybe it called "sepang luk". Keris with sor-soran sepang, but with seven luks upward. Sukamdi seems to learn hard all the pakems of kerises. So, everytime he invented or created a new model or dhapur, always based on pakem but modified with "philosophical" reason. Like the "peksi dewata" dhapur, actually he made this model after he was looking at my mata tombak (spears). I remember, he turned the tombak upside down, and show me a kind of hidden carving, showing two birds with jambul. I think it was "peacock" bird. Quite long time, he watched that ornament in my old tombak (dhapur baru kuping, tombak with two "ears" in sor-soran). Upside down the kuping, Sukamdi saw ornament of two birds. And some months later, he made this dhapur. I bought this Sukamdi keris from the first hand owner, Kanjeng Raden Tumenggung Benny (sorry I forgot his last name)... I don't think people like Sukamdi is thinking about patenting his keris model. Maybe there must be someone else who may encourage him to do that. Otherwise, people won't know that such dhapur is his. Like motives of pamor. Who can claim to patent the pattern? If you see in the website, the development of pamors (patterns) in damascus steel is incredible. Event they can comercialized the pamor itself, and sell the pamor by inch per inch, in such dollar... Just watch the website of Devin Thomas (please http://www.devinthomas.com see the products) Yes, they are machinal. But in a certain way, keris world now is far behind the development of damascus steel world. At least in commercialization of the new product. This world of keris is still looking back and admiring at the past all the time. Yes, of course "describing the past, inscribing the future", like the thesis of Dr Nancy Florida (specialised in Javanese litterature of Ranga sasmita -- not Ranggawarsito -- on Babad Jaka Tingkir). But actually, we must not forget to look forward, the future... Ganjawulung

19th May 2007, 07:00 AM	#5
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Alam Shah, Thanks a lot, for the positive suggestion. Of course, I will bear it in my mind your positive comments. And also, the "spiritual and human" vision of BluErf.. That's good for the development of this keris world..

19th May 2007, 08:31 AM	#6
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Gonjo, That is a weakness of traditional-keris-smith facing with modern system. however, if snki, stsi or local government know and realize about it, who knows one of them will do something benefitting to all. According to shape/dhapur "SEPANG LUK", I would like to inform you that I have one keris: tangguh/period expected:: MAJAPAHIT and shape/dhapur: SEPANG URUBING DAMAR (there are 3 luks on the top of blade). So, sepang with luks is no new. The new one is, perhaps, sepang with 7 luks. Then, Sukamdi creation is still able to be patented. Fortunately, I bring it (Sepang Urubing Damar) to Africa where I live now. Therefore, if any kerislover wants to have a look, perhaps, I could take and share a picture of it. Usmen

19th May 2007, 05:13 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,227	Wow! This conversation is great! This is important stuff to consider for the continuence of the keris art. I would love to encourage more talk on these matters. Maybe it is just the anarchist in me, but i do have a bit of a problem seeing any kind of artform patented. I think it is up to the buyer to be able to determine if they are buying real and quality items and putting a patent on a keris dhapur in no way insured that it won't be copied anyway. Just look at all the fake Guccis in the fashion world. Keris makers today are certainly creating new keris with old dhapurs, dhapurs that were never "patented".