Pics: Jawa Demam Hilts

Marcokeris · 18th May 2007, 01:19 PM

Nice Hits Ganja!
A question: how is possible to understand in right way if the Jawa Demam's handles are from Cirebon area istead of Sumatra.
There are some angles (maybe in the bacK?) or is fonly for decoration or for the cut in the base?
Thanks

Here i put a photo of many other Yogya brothers ( a chics'brood !)

ganjawulung · 18th May 2007, 04:53 PM

Dear Marco,

Cirebon was an important Sultanate in Indonesia, in the 15th and 16th century. And it was an important port too in Java and South-east Asia beside Malacca. You still can find many of foreign influence in Cirebon until today. In the old days, even (Chinese great seaman) Cheng Ho had visited this port in the nort-west side of Central Java.

Cirebon's culture, was mixture of Indian, Arabic and Chinese influence. So, no wonder if other island culture and art influenced Cirebon too. One of their famous Sultan was Sunan Gunung Jati. He was mix-blood of Persian, Javanese (grand father is the King of Pajajaran Kingdom, Prabu Siliwangi), and he was married to a chinese princess Ong Tin Nio -- daughter of Ming dynasti from Champa or China.

Cirebon was the aliance of other Islamic Kingdom in Nusantara, Demak (Central Java) and Banten (West Java). So, no wonder too if there was Sumatranese influence.

I have many kinds of Cirebonese hilts, beside the Jawa Deman style, and even Rajamala (shorter than kingfisher's nose), and wayang or bajang (demon-giant) hilts. Quite unique.

Alam Shah · 18th May 2007, 05:07 PM

Ganja,

Hmmm... your first 3 paragraphs seems familiar (Keris - 3rd Ed?).

Ganja, if you don't mind, share the pictures with us?

ganjawulung · 20th May 2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Ganja, if you don't mind, share the pictures with us?

Shahrial,

Sorry for being late to answer you. Of course, I will share the pictures with you, with pleasure. I am still taking fotos of them. Pls wait for a couple moments...

ganjawulung · 22nd May 2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Ganja,

Hmmm... your first 3 paragraphs seems familiar (Keris - 3rd Ed?).

Ganja, if you don't mind, share the pictures with us?

Dear Shahrial,

As I promised yesterday, I will share the pictures with you. These are some Cirebonese hilt. Not "demam" (fever) anymore, look at the hand position: no more cross their hearts, but lay their hand at their bent knees.

Some people call such hilt as "buta bajang" (demon-giant), or "wayang" hilt. The long nose one, is Rajamala hilt. A wayang figure..

Alam Shah · 23rd May 2007, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

... Some people call such hilt as "buta bajang" (demon-giant), or "wayang" hilt. The long nose one, is Rajamala hilt. A wayang figure..

Thank you, ganja for sharing. I do have an example of a "buta bajang" hilt mounted on a keris.

I've studied hilts for sometime now, however my knowledge is still limited.

I found books from Martin Kerner, Vanna, Tammens, Suhartono and Bambang to be the most helpful, regarding hilts. Books from Van Duuren, Frey, Haryono and a few others do contain many hilts examples / illustrations also providing a good source of knowledge.

Physically handling the hilts provides another dimension of learning, having the chance to see the detailing works from various angles, material used, weight distribution, grasping techniques, not possible from pictures. I'm lucky to have friends and dealers whom are willing to share their items with me.

ganjawulung · 23rd May 2007, 02:33 AM

Wow,

What an inspiring web! I dream someday I'll have my own web like yours. So we could share with other people on our keris. I have already some collection, but not as many as yours yet.

I had offered by Bentara Budaya Jakarta (a good place for cultural exhibition in Indonesia) to make a kind of (Keris Hilts) Exhibition this year. Do you have any idea? Or may be it will be possible for you to join the exhibition here?

I met once with Mr Suhardjono from Surabaya a couple years ago. We shared together on kerises, and for him, especially on keris hilts. (At that time, he was working for a nikel corporation in Soroako, Sulawesi. He's engineer and keris lover). And he gave me his book on handle.

I am waiting for your sharing on the exhibition's idea, Shahrial...

ganjawulung · 23rd May 2007, 03:00 AM

Shahrial,

I have this strange old hilt. Is it worth for something to tell? Its figure was elephant headed 'god'. Do you have some reference on it?

David · 23rd May 2007, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Some people call such hilt as "buta bajang" (demon-giant), or "wayang" hilt. The long nose one, is Rajamala hilt. A wayang figure..

Yes, the long-nosed one is a wayang hilt, but what of the other figurative hilts you show? Are these also "buta bajang"? Up until this point i would have referred to them as "raksasa", which is also a demon-giant AFAIK. Would that term not be correct for these hilts?

ganjawulung · 23rd May 2007, 04:31 AM

Dear David,

Buta and Raksasa are the same meaning, Dave.. Buta (Javanese) and Raksasa (Indonesian). Buta Bajang in Javanese is more specific. Bajang means "kerdil" in Indonesian or something like "dwarf" (but giant) creature. So "buta bajang" litterally, means "dwarf giant"... so contradictory. There are so many contradictory terms in Javanese world. Javanese itself is contradictory too. Imagine. They (we) have so many powerful kerises and spears, though had been colonialized by certain nations... (That's our daily joke in Java). Thanks Dave, for the attention...

David · 23rd May 2007, 05:14 AM

Thank you Ganja, there is so much to learn.

And please do not worry too much when you have some words that you find hard to translate. It will always be that way with languages. The general English rule on this forum is not so strict as to not understand this. Some words just won't translate. What is important is that we keep the conversation in one language while we try to work out the details of these translations just so that we all understand each other. And as i stated in another thread, certain keris terms such as "gonjo" really have no better English equivalent.

18th May 2007, 01:19 PM	#1
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Nice Hits Ganja! A question: how is possible to understand in right way if the Jawa Demam's handles are from Cirebon area istead of Sumatra. There are some angles (maybe in the bacK?) or is fonly for decoration or for the cut in the base? Thanks Here i put a photo of many other Yogya brothers ( a chics'brood !) Attached Images

18th May 2007, 04:53 PM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Cirebon Dear Marco, Cirebon was an important Sultanate in Indonesia, in the 15th and 16th century. And it was an important port too in Java and South-east Asia beside Malacca. You still can find many of foreign influence in Cirebon until today. In the old days, even (Chinese great seaman) Cheng Ho had visited this port in the nort-west side of Central Java. Cirebon's culture, was mixture of Indian, Arabic and Chinese influence. So, no wonder if other island culture and art influenced Cirebon too. One of their famous Sultan was Sunan Gunung Jati. He was mix-blood of Persian, Javanese (grand father is the King of Pajajaran Kingdom, Prabu Siliwangi), and he was married to a chinese princess Ong Tin Nio -- daughter of Ming dynasti from Champa or China. Cirebon was the aliance of other Islamic Kingdom in Nusantara, Demak (Central Java) and Banten (West Java). So, no wonder too if there was Sumatranese influence. I have many kinds of Cirebonese hilts, beside the Jawa Deman style, and even Rajamala (shorter than kingfisher's nose), and wayang or bajang (demon-giant) hilts. Quite unique.

23rd May 2007, 03:00 AM	#8
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Old Hilt Shahrial, I have this strange old hilt. Is it worth for something to tell? Its figure was elephant headed 'god'. Do you have some reference on it? Attached Images

18th May 2007, 05:07 PM	#3
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Ganja, Hmmm... your first 3 paragraphs seems familiar (Keris - 3rd Ed?). Ganja, if you don't mind, share the pictures with us?

23rd May 2007, 02:33 AM	#7
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Wow, What an inspiring web! I dream someday I'll have my own web like yours. So we could share with other people on our keris. I have already some collection, but not as many as yours yet. I had offered by Bentara Budaya Jakarta (a good place for cultural exhibition in Indonesia) to make a kind of (Keris Hilts) Exhibition this year. Do you have any idea? Or may be it will be possible for you to join the exhibition here? I met once with Mr Suhardjono from Surabaya a couple years ago. We shared together on kerises, and for him, especially on keris hilts. (At that time, he was working for a nikel corporation in Soroako, Sulawesi. He's engineer and keris lover). And he gave me his book on handle. I am waiting for your sharing on the exhibition's idea, Shahrial...

23rd May 2007, 04:31 AM	#10
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Dear David, Buta and Raksasa are the same meaning, Dave.. Buta (Javanese) and Raksasa (Indonesian). Buta Bajang in Javanese is more specific. Bajang means "kerdil" in Indonesian or something like "dwarf" (but giant) creature. So "buta bajang" litterally, means "dwarf giant"... so contradictory. There are so many contradictory terms in Javanese world. Javanese itself is contradictory too. Imagine. They (we) have so many powerful kerises and spears, though had been colonialized by certain nations... (That's our daily joke in Java). Thanks Dave, for the attention...

23rd May 2007, 05:14 AM	#11
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,227	Thank you Ganja, there is so much to learn. And please do not worry too much when you have some words that you find hard to translate. It will always be that way with languages. The general English rule on this forum is not so strict as to not understand this. Some words just won't translate. What is important is that we keep the conversation in one language while we try to work out the details of these translations just so that we all understand each other. And as i stated in another thread, certain keris terms such as "gonjo" really have no better English equivalent.